Is teaching children to use cutlery no longer a thing?

[Pixieb34]

Genuine question…
Do parents of younger children teach them to use a knife and fork nowadays?
I’m a parent of older teens and I did, along with general table manners like eating with your mouth closed and waiting for others to start/finish.
Am I being old fashioned to think being able to eat food with a knife and fork is a basic skill, or is eating with fingers or just a fork or spoon what’s done nowadays?

@Xrays Cake forks are the opposite of "upper middle class"!

Knowing 'the rules' is an extremely useful and underrated life skill. If you think it doesn't matter, you're missing something very subtle about people and the world.

When the rich send their kids to private schools, they're not just buying better grades. They're buying their children the ability to move seamlessly through all areas and levels of life. That includes seemingly 'pointless' things like table manners. Knowing how to behave and what is expected makes it easier for non-poshos to confidently enter these worlds (and maybe even transform them, if they wish).

I know this because I am someone who was brought up in a working class environment and a poor school, who ended up working in one of the most elite workplaces in the country.

Yeah, I was thinking that!

I knew people would say this. I don’t agree. Now they are common, I get that. Like people trying to be posh, like Mrs Bucket in keeping up appearances. But in the past no one would have a silver or otherwise very pretty set of cake forks unless you were upper middle class. Just wouldn’t happen.

Don't people gnaw the last bit of the meat off chops using their hands? I do, especially given the price of lamb cutlets these days.

And don't people chase the last bit of the gravy with a piece of bread? It's called fare la scarpetta in Italy - to make the little shoe. Though it's not done it fancy restaurants we don't eat in them all the time, do we?

Knifes are fine from the beginning. Obviously size and sharpness age appropriate. IKEA sells toddler metal cutlery sets with all three in, for about £4. Toddler aimed at 1-4 year olds imo. So I would expect a 5 year old to be able to use a bog standard cutlery knife in a restaurant without gauging out eye.

Ds is 3. He gets a knife, fork and spoon at all meals and uses fairly well. Helped when needed. He can’t cut things like a sausage alone, but can cut soft things and butter bread

Oh lordy I hope you are never sat next to me and mine at dinner!

Both dd2 and dd3 have acquired brain injuries - one from birth and one from illness - mild but weirdly the same presentation - neither can co-ordinate their hands simultaneously so I often cut up food or they hold it with a fork and cut with the knife - not their fault - they just can't do it . Cock all to do with lazy parenting or poor manners. I couldn't care less if people want to be judgy about them - I'm just grateful they are alive.

@amlie8 - you are spot on. This issue about table manners is revealing because it's one of those implicit social tests that happens when you eat with others. If you don't know the norms then others notice very quickly. Starts in school and lasts a lifetime.

Being able to hold two implements and use them together not just hold one unused . Whichever hand is easier is fine but 11 year olds who if given something that needs cutting hold the food with their hand and cut or just pick it up and eat it like a biscuit with sauce dripping down their arms.

Well said.

I don't think anyone is casting aspersions on parents of children who are unable to use cutlery for the reasons you give @ghostyslovesheets.

They were talking about NT children with no issues who are dextrous, but have not been taught how to use cutlery properly.

I'm sorry for what you have had to go through

Lots of kids are starting reception and year one untrained with parents saying isn't that the schools job....we had 5 in one reception class last year no sen

Thanks @RampantIvy but the thing is - you wouldn;t know to look at them that they where any different - same as lots of ND kids

I think this is ageist to be honest. There have always been women who've had to work and before SMP lots who left their babies in some form of childcare at 6 weeks or earlier.
What does IT have to do with this??

I didn't know BLW lasted up to school age at what age does that stop being the excuse

I do think there's something in this. Presumably kids who have fed from a spoon from babyhood are more comfortable with cutlery than those who were encouraged to eat with their hands. Sets an early default as it were.

So how come 5 year olds always used to be able to eat with a knife and fork and now 9 year olds can't?

Where did I say it was an excuse?

I worked organising sales conferences and customer events for a big international tyre company the MD would go through staff placements and move or remove any who "ate like a pig" saying he would not have his customers subjected to the spectacle of employees chasing food around their plates they were never sent anywhere important and the redundancy lists were interesting

I was soooooo hoping we were going to avoid ageism-but no.

Most kids in my primary can’t use cutlery neither do the friends that my kids invite for tea. They eat with fingers or a spoon. Probably because most kids eat with their faces in screens now.

"So many ‘table manners’ are just pointless exercises to waste time."

Yes. But I didn't t want my children to be judged by dickheads, so I taught them the "pointless exercises" Even the seriously bizarre ones like th proper way to eat asparagus. If you know this stuff, you can decide whether or not to do it. If you don't, you can't.

Babies like copying others though so will pick up spoons and open cups if offered them all the children I work with as a cm use cutlery and open cups through choice if offered them starting as babies with spoons and then around 20 months a spoon and fork replaced with a knife and fork by 3...learning to push the two together. As they get older they graduate from cutting soft things like banana to firmer foods.

I’ll admit that I’ve let my DS eat in front of the TV, okay at the table, eat on the move. He rarely sits still, so I just want to get food into him any way possible. But I do know he’ll sit at school, so it’s down to me to do the same at home. It’s tough, but I need to help him grow-up a bit with his eating.

I don't think this is meant to be a parent or child bashing thread. It seemed to me to be a genuine question and conversation. If you're offended it's most likely because you've been lax, lazy, dont care or have been working your butt off to support your family and keep a roof over your heads and somethings gotta give.

We're hot on manners and table manners and have been since we did BLW. But I still have to remind dc1 to eat with a closed mouth half the time and to slow down. During summer he's been fine but I do partially blame the schools. It's purely the setting when they're sat with other children they will do as others do. It's part of herd mentality. I've asked dc and been told that school food is mostly finger food bar roasts or curries/pasta. And, kids will be kids they will be messy and interrupt each other, eat as quickly as they can so they can get to playing outside. They don't seem to have the time allocated to them to eat properly during the school day. And, then we have to break those habits at home or at restaurants. I'm guessing it gets better after primary but we're still in the thick of it.

One of the teachers at dcs school had said that they are seeing more and more children starting who are not toilet trained, Can't independently dress (zips and buttons, socks etc) are unable to follow basic instructions and the list goes on. I genuinely think (and happy to be told I'm wrong) these issues stem from parents not being able to have enough time to do these things properly when having to work to support the household, gentler parenting styles or a change in parenting methods and a belief that they will just eventually catch up and be child led and a rise in children who have SEN. And, I think there are parents out there who just think it's the pre//schools job to do these things. It must be very fusterating for teachers and TAs to have to divert valuable class time into doing this on top of their already stretched timetables.