To ask why so many children are feral these days?

[ChocBanana]

I have two DC, one (13) with ASD and hypersensitivity, so she wears ear defenders and ear plugs in noisy environments.
However, today, we have had to leave a museum because of the behaviour of other kids.
I know it’s the last week of the holidays but we tend to prefer quieter places, or quieter times of day. We tend to go to museums and parks, woodlands or if we are going somewhere busier generally we go in the afternoon.

We went to a museum today near us, not a particularly big one. After about ten minutes, a mum came in with three kids and basically said “Off you go” and let them run riot. They were climbing on the exhibits, trying to pull things off the wall, picking up the listening device things and swinging them against the wall and one of them scribbled all over an information panel.
A member of staff asked them to be careful. The mum titled and says “Come on kids, we’re obviously not welcome.” Then on the way out one of them kicked a wall, leaving a scuff mark. As they left, another family came in, the was a display thing where you can pretend to dig for fossils, the two kids were throwing the sand at each other, then a third family came in, one of them, a teenager sat next to where my teenager was trying to regulate herself. She stood up and he instantly out his feet up on her bag then kicked it to the floor and put his feet up on the sofa.
The mum was chatting away to her partner, the youngest child was hiding under a shelf, then started pulling out all the display drawers at once and slamming them shut.

We had to leave at this point, my daughter was in tears.

Now, I said, I get that it’s the last week of the summer holidays. I get that many people are desperate for free things to do, and I know many children have various reasons for acting in various ways. I’m not asking for special treatment or being naive, but SERIOUSLY, AIBU to expect a certain level of behaviour in a museum?
If I am BU, any suggestions on where the hell I am supposed to take a 13 year old who struggles with people at the best of times?

They are encouraged scream to show that they are excited all the time, concerts, assemblies etc.

Children are not getting less attention from adults than they used to a generation ago.

Parents are spending too much time on their phones.

I also believe that some families are being squeezed out of access to nursery places: The increase in work from home, combined with the cost of living crisis, means that families are not accessing professional childcare; mums are working at home, as well simultaneously looking after children, especially in school holidays. People are also turning to their parents to provide free childcare, which tends to be babysitting, rather than sustained attention and interaction. This situation will not improve when lone parents will have a higher threshold of 30 hours work a week to qualify for UTC.

Sorry, first sentence is incorrect, delete the "not"

@VeterinaryCareAssistant , that rang a bell! I used to work in a library, where most of the children were well behaved. But the parents of those who weren’t, would say e.g. ‘Don’t do that, or the lady (me) will be cross.’

Never, ‘Don’t do that, because we don’t run around screaming and bashing into old ladies in libraries.’

Nice Mummy was never going to be cross, was she? No, it’d always be the nasty lady.

One mum of twin girls of maybe 7 invariably told her two that if they didn’t behave themselves there would be no borrowing of a DVD to take home. (This was some years ago.)
Since they never did behave, she’d then come to the counter with no DVD - so both girls would wailing and crying at the tops of their PITA voices.

After a minute of this the mother would invariably give in, while giving me that helpless, eye-rolling shrug, as if to say, ‘What can you do?’

Oh, how I wanted to tell her! 😈
But I’d probably have got the sack.

This all goes back much further than 2010, it started in the 1960s and has got worse since then. For example in the period form the 1970s until I retired teachers have had more and more of their sanctions eroded until now they have almost none. If a parent doesn't want their little horror to do a detention they don't have to do it, I once told a girl to pick up the crisp packet she'd thrown on the floor and her response was that's why we have cleaners. I'm keeping them in work! When it escalated to the parent being involved Mum backed her little sod and we had her sneering mug in school.

Sounds like it is the parents that are feral. Kids are just following their example.

The unparented are now parents themselves and have no idea what to do.

I don't have any solutions, but lots of exasperated solidarity. Behaviour definitely seems to have got much worse, for both kids and adults, since the pandemic, especially in public. Hardly anyone has any personal boundaries any more and oh God, the noise levels everywhere.

On the days I go to work by bus almost the whole vehicle is rammed with people without earphones, having full on personal phone calls, listening to their playlists or TV programs....on the rare occasions we do go out these days we try to do it as early as possible and somewhere like a beach or woodland that isn't popular (easier said than done depending on where you live). Out for breakfast/brunch time, home for lunch.

The last time we visited a museum we had to leave early due to the screeching in the crystal gallery....it was like someone had let a horde of small banshees loose.

I think that acronym could be used long before Covid, we're in danger of using Covid as a justification for the feral behaviour and all the other ills of the world.

YANBU
as a retail worker it drives me bloody nuts… especially this week… kids running riot, parents not watching them. I like to think I’m laid back but both my dc have never been feral, they’ve never run around like wild animals. They treat places with respect. The parents are the ones to blame, especially the ones who think they can do what they want when they want. DS has asd and this kind of behaviour is why we avoid places like these especially in the summer holidays. We try to do stuff like that whilst he has inset days.

I think a lot of children are constantly overstimulated, to the extent they can't sit quietly or do nothing for more than 5 minutes. They seem to have to have stuff planned for them all the time, trips here and there, constant snacks, numerous mentions even on mumsnet of constant post school and weekend activities. I genuinely don't remember any planned activities apart from brownies once a week.

This, exactly.
And add in to that a child who thinks it's exciting when he's told off (because he spends his life getting attention for being naughty so that's how you get attention in his book) and if he notices you don't want him to do something he gets more excited about doing it.
I am pretty good at distracting but sometimes my tried and tested method of getting DS away from something he isn't supposed to be doing (ignoring and moving away, paying attention to something else much more interesting and/or appropriate) looks to other parents like ineffectual pandering.

Agree with this.

I think that a fair amount of this is misremembering and bias.

When we start back at school next week I can guarantee the 6th form will be telling me how shocked they are at the behaviour of year 7s. “We would NEVER have DARED do that.” But, I remember the (then) 6th form saying that when these kids were in year 7. Nobody is lying, they just don’t remember their poor behaviour because they didn’t notice they were being rude at the time. And there is some bias too because those who stay on for 6th form are likely to have been relatively well behaved and had well behaved friends.

Similarly, as we were kids ourselves 30 years ago it is unlikely we noticed noise in the same way we do as adults. And, those of us who are the type to notice poor behaviour in kids now were (most likely) well parented / reasonably well behaved and probably our friends were too (often these things run in social circles).

I don’t think it’s all that, and the increase in knife crime amongst teenagers (for example) does indicate that something is definitely going backwards. But badly behaved toddlers are unruly teens have always existed in significant numbers, and likely always well.

Gentle parents lead to tyrant kids

Surely that's a good thing with all the activities and extracurriculars ?

Too many parents have allowed screens to keep their children busy that when they're not occupied by screens kids dont know how to behave and parents don't know how to parent.
We were at soft play today, two siblings spent the whole time just screaming, really shrill screams. The only time one of them stopped was when another parent with a younger child spoke to him and said he was frightening the other little ones. There was around 20 minutes of no screaming then it continued until our session ended. The mother was on her phone the whole time.

My DD (3.5yrs old) was recently referred to our local hospital Child Development Centre for assessment (for autism, ADHD, ASD etc). They said that since lockdown, referrals are up by 90%. Lack of socialisation at critical development milestones seems to have had a huge impact on kids.

I totally agree that behaviour in general is getting worse and particularly in schools as I have seen it in the school I teach in.

wow about the McDonald’s lady - so sorry you have to deal with that.

just as a slight counter we’ve been out and about a lot this holiday and have seen hardly any bad behaviour at all. for example to the natural history and science museums and all the children were well behaved so there are plenty of nice kids and parents about.
we also do park run (and have done it at loads of places) and all of the children and parents there are lovely, I never hear swearing or anything like that.

I often wonder the same thing, and am glad that I am no longer young. I really can't imagine the state the world will be in within the next few decades, and find it quite concerning.

I blame the middle class gentle parenting fad OP, Felix is not naughty, he is just expressing his feelings.

The overall quality of parenting has dropped over time. It's largely due to how we regard parenting. It should be seen as a skill that needs to be learnt and developed, reflected on and improved with feedback from those who know more than us, like any other skill. But in the UK, and some other countries, it isn't. Commenting or giving feedback on someone else's parenting is seem as taboo and a personal insult instead of helpful and necessary.

We have lost the "it takes a village" mentality and this is, in part, the result.

I think we are seeing the effects of lockdown - two years in which many children were not socialising or socialised, and two years is a very long and important time in terms of a child learning to be pro-social and how to behave in public.

Also meant to add, I used to nanny. I nannied in several countries and the British middle class are by far the worst parents, I’ve had children of 6 or 7 years old hit me, parents have no consequences when you tell them of such behaviour. I once witnessed a 7 year old being picked up by his grandmother at a private school, when she refused to carry his bag, he repeatedly pushed her, she did nothing. Anyone in my family would have at least raised their voice but that’s so rare here. Never witnessed stuff like this in any other country.

@Hawkins0090 personally I dont think so. I think many children have lost the ability to just be and entertain themselves. Also it isn't cheap!!