To not buy him the pink coat

[LadyBitsnBobs]

DS age 4 is starting school. We are choosing a new coat and as school says any colour is fine so I asked him and he want pink.

He inherited many of older DD’s things so his precious football, his scooter, bike, are all pink. He associates pink with being outside in the park or cycling in the woods. It is his favourite colour.

I am supposed to be an open-minded feminist. Why am I finding it hard to buy my son a pink coat for Reception?

I found a “rainbow coat” on FB market which is lots of different colours - mostly navy but including a little bit of pink. And I bought that and fobbed him off.

help me oh wise ones of MN. And the less wise, you just go right ahead and scorch me. Am I a fraud - not a feminist after all!

The point is the child hasn't started school yet. His mother has no way of knowing which way this is going to go. It might be no problem at all, which would be fab. But there might be a dynamic whereby some child or children who have picked up rigid/sexist ideas from their parents set the tone for how unorthodox clothing/colour choices are received. It's not about a binary 'proud of who you are' versus 'timid sheep'. It's about giving the child a chance to find his feet in peace so he can, later on, feel confident about sharing his likes.

People are very naive if they think many 5 year olds haven't absorbed misogynist, patriarchal ideas.

Unpopular opinion but I sometimes think the parents are trying to make a statement about how 'cool' they are when their boys wear a pink coat or similar.... I don't see it as a feminist act 🤷‍♀️

I think it’s a tough one tbh.

Im quite glad my children’s primary had set colours for a coat for all children, so there could be no argument about it and no one not fitting in.

I thought this as well until my son wore some pink trainers to nursery and had many comments from the kids about how pink was for girls!

He wasn't bothered at all but I was surprised they thought like this at 4!

I agree with those who say that a few years ago I would have gone with the fully pink coat, but now I probably wouldn't. This is sad, I would have in fact heartily embraced the pink coat etc a few years ago, but now the meaning has become too tied up with gender nonsense.

What’s really sad is that I would probably have bought DS one when he was young, but wouldn’t now, because he’d likely be told he’s really a girl 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh! I see I’m late to that answer 😳

My 8yo son was very gender non conforming and still is to an extent. For example for a dress up day in reception he wanted to wear his Elsa dress, so he did. Our approach has always been that there is no such thing as girls and boys toys, dress up as a princess all day long if you want etc. Very much tried to make it not a thing at all.

However I did not ever purchase him obviously 'girly' clothes and I did this because, like it or not, others kids would likely say things and I don't want that for him. It's not because I feel it's wrong but because I'm aware of social expectations that he's not aware of. I equally didn't only buy boy stuff with cars on because that's not his interest (unlike his brother who is such a stereotypical boy, loves cars and dinosaurs). Just went colourful/gender neutral.

I think it's fine if you've got him a coat he likes and haven't said anything to him about pink not being for boys or anything like that. I do feel sad that there isn't as much room for boys to be gender non conforming as girls, and I'm aware not buying him the summer dresses he wants etc makes me part of the problem, but I'm not sacrificing my sons social development for a greater good. We do it in smaller ways, he always had a frozen/Elsa/sparkly lunch box, has a preference for stereotypical girly bag and book designs and we don't limit that. But I had to find a line which for me was everyday clothes.

I'm glad I did, he seems to be becoming comfortable in his skin, has a big group of (only female) friends. He also told me (though didn't say anything for ONE YEAR) that when he went to school in his Elsa dress that a group of boys circled him, laughed and said that's not for boys. The sad reality is if he'd dressed like that everyday I'd have been opening him to being bullied in order to make a point about my own principles.

We also live in a world where gender has regressed and boys who dress like girls are asked if they identify as girls, which just as much sends a message about there being a right way to present as a boy or a girl. There isn't much room at the moment for boys who just like to be boys who like 'girly' stuff.

In an ideal world, anyone should wear any colour they like. I wish we were at a place where boys could wear pink and it's no big deal.

But a 4yo might choose something without knowing the implications of their choice. If they knew they'd be picked on, would they make the same choice? Their choices aren't informed like adults or older children.

I know others won't agree but I make an effort to blend my kids in to some extent at school. At home they play with whatever - my son does have pink items, unicorns along with all the cars, dinosaurs, trains, monsters, Marvel stuff - but I'd not send him to school with a unicorn bag or glittery coat. I've never told him he can't or that it's for girls and often he chooses a pink option like his sister when out (eg balloons, lunchboxes in cafes) but if you've been bullied yourself, you'll know how destructive it is, and protecting my kids is important. Similarly, I wouldn't send a shy, reserved 8yo to school with a Peppa Pig or Cocomelon lunchbox for the same reason. They'd have to be very confident and/or popular to front it out.

That said, I'd be livid if mine ever criticised others for their choices - but a lot of families don't foster those attitudes. We had a parent of a confident boy in my son's reception class declining to go to a full class party with a vague Little Mermaid theme and telling other parents in the yard that their kid refused to go because "mermaids are for girls" then after that, loads of boys started dropping out while at first they had said they'd go (a few themed decorations and buns was all it was, it was just a typical party in a hall!) There was a thread here once about a y5 girl I think, wanting a "princess" dress and someone said something along the lines of "I'd assume there was something wrong with them". All this stuff you sometimes see that "Smiggle is too babyish" for older KS2 (is it really?) parents and older kids are saying stuff to their kids who then go in telling others that they are doing something "for girls/boys" or "babyish" or "weird". As an adult you are free to decide you don't give a flying fuck about this. A 4yo, or even an older child who is more naive/innocent, doesn't have the info to make this decision. It's empowering to think "I like this no matter what they might say" but the opposite to find your lovely coat or water bottle or bag is actually an object of derision and scorn if you never saw it coming.

It's a horrible world but it's the reality and those of you with confident kids may choose differently than those of us with more sensitive kids.

My 3 year old DS has a new - charity shop coat for starting nursery, it is pink with large red spots. He calls it his tombliboo coat and is very happy with it. He looks very adorable in it.

The reality is he needed a new coat, we could only afford charity shops and it was the only waterproof coat in his size.

I think it is social skills that most likely influences bullying rather than simply conforming to societal expectations.

Plenty of people with confidence, high self esteem and social intelligence manage to be their unique selves and non conforming while making friends and not becoming an easy target for bullies.

Perhaps, rather than focusing on the pink coat and worrying about it attracting bullies, focus on the social skills that help him fit in and protect him from bullying.

No I wouldn’t buy him a pink coat. I wouldn’t express anything about it being for girls just that it’s not a practical colour. My daughter had a pink one in y1 and it got really dirty looking. I usually get navy for school

mustLearn2Cook · Today 08:47
I think it is social skills that most likely influences bullying rather than simply confirming to societal expectations.

Plenty of people with confidence, high self esteem and social intelligence manage to be their unique selves and non conforming while making friends and not becoming an easy target for bullies.

Perhaps, rather than focusing on the pink coat and worrying about it attracting bullies, focus on the social skills that help him fit in and protect him from bullying”

Absolutely this.

I wouldn't buy any child a pink coat, just being practical about dirt etc.

I came on to say what PP has said - pink really isn't a practical colour for a school coat. They'll fall off the pegs and get trodden on in the cloak room, and get splashed when running around in the playground. I'd go for a dark colour whether girl or boy so you can sponge down and marks won't show so much.

Aged 4 mine weren't choosing their own coats and clothes. I never understand why parents give such 'power' at such a young age.

I always bought dark colour as they need washing less and hide a multitude of stains. Plus they could all be passed down between my male and female children. Very boring and practical but coats aren't cheap.

I think there’s a lot of overthinking here. My DS also likes pink but I’m wouldn’t have bought him a pink coat. I know kids can be horrible and I’d rather protect him at this age. I don’t think I’m doing him any harm, I just don’t make a big deal of it. They have to wear uniforms for school and there’s not much choice about that, and they don’t seem to mind. They don’t grow up feeling oppressed because they had to wear a red/blue/green jumper. OP I’m sure your DS won’t really care that he didn’t get the pink coat so don’t worry yourself. As other PPs have said, school is a big transition and if you make it as easy as possible for them, you can’t go far wrong

I buy good quality coats and expect to get 2 years out of them so that means no faddy designs that they’ll grow out of and no colours that stain easily. So neither my DS or my DD would be getting a rainbow or a pink coat. I wouldn’t have a problem getting DS pink wellies or something like that though.

Honestly, and very sadly, I completely agree with you. 5 yrs ago I would have said buy the pink coat, but now almost everyone will assume that means he is trans and wants to be a girl, and eventually he may start to believe that too.
It's so frustrating. Teen girls who cut their hair short are automatically assumed to be transmen when they are just girls exploring their own style.

Last week on holiday, I bought my 14yr old DS a pink sparkly baseball cap with sparkly ears on because he wanted it.

Thankfully, he’s like me and self confident enough not to care about the opinions of a minority of knuckle draggers. I used to dress weirdly at school as a kid and always knew my own mind too.

We don’t need or seek the approval of others and happily choose our own path. He’d laugh his head off at anyone suggesting he might be Trans as he knows changing sex isn’t a possibility.

Why would you let other people’s unwanted negative opinions stop you enjoying yourself? 🤔

Realise arguing with people on the internet is a fool’s errand, especially after I just read the thread about reducing phone use haha.

But the OP’s thread isn’t about whether or not pink is an acceptable colour coat for the first year at school. There are some excellent points made in the thread about how it isn’t.

For me, the issue is that the OP gave him a choice, he said he wanted pink, and she said no.

I feel the ballet example is a good counterpoint. If he wanted to do ballet, would the OP say no because there’s a risk of him being bullied? For me, there’s no difference.

Realise I might be an outlier on this!

Why does a pink coat need to be a later pink that gets dirty.

For all those worried about dirt a bright deep cerise pink is an amazing alternative!

Who cares what the sex of the person inside it is? For anyone that does it's says more about them than the warm person is a beautiful dark pink coat!

This made me giggle! My tools are pink! My pelicase is pink, as is my hard hat, steelies and hi vis!

And Ive even met quite a few guys who have pink pelicases (and plenty of girls as well! on one of my last tours there were 3 pink pelis!)

That being said, Im unsure if i would buy a pink coat for a son... Id like to think I am, but if put in that position, would I?

Exactly this. You understand that pink coded as a “girl” colour is a social construct. BUT you have to weigh that knowledge up against the four year olds in his peer group who may not be so enlightened!