Page 19 | To go to dinner with another man?

Boogiewoogieanddance · 2023-08-29T18:42:36+00:00

DH is being a bit funny and thinks it's inappropriate so just want to get some other opinions. A good friend of mine was married recently, unfortunately he is now serperated through no choice of his own. He has some wedding gifts in the form of vouchers, this specific one to a super nice restaurant that I couldn't usually afford. DH also wouldn't go because he doesn't like a set menu. He asked me today if I would go with him. We have been good friends from before his last relationship, throughout the marriage etc and are quite close.. Entirely mutually platonic. We meet up for walks, the occasional drink etc sometimes alone sometimes with friends. DH knows him and knows when we meet up, never been an issue. Recently we've probably been meeting a bit more because he's been having a hard time and could do with the company. DH thinks it's inappropriate because its a fancy meal, I'm married, he's not anymore and seems like a date. I appreciate that if he had out of the blue asked to take me for an overpriced dinner and wine I would feel uncomfortable and it would be inappropriate but that's not the case, it's exceptional in that it's a crappy situation and he has this voucher to use and rather than it go to waste we enjoy each others company and have nice food and that DH wouldn't even have with me anyway. I think DH will get over it, he trusts me and I think its more that if someone else saw us together it could look sus.. But surely that shouldn't really matter? Or am I just thinking with my belly and it's an entirely inappropriate situation...

GCSister · 02/09/2023 15:04

My point was based upon the notion of trust as someone raised that was the reason why i have my views. I was demonstrating why not do these other things if you trust your partner.

Social norms.....I don't shower with my friends for the same reason I wouldn't shower with colleagues. That's nothing to do with trust, it's to do with social rules and norms.

ErosandAgape · 02/09/2023 15:06

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 14:44

@ErosandAgape Clearly everything I am saying is being either misinterpreted at best or deliberately twisted at worst.

I said that is how affairs usually start and how cracks enter into a relationship. Not all the time but that is how it happens.

You didn't answer my question. Would you be ok with your husband sharing a bed with another woman? Showering with another woman? Providing nothing happened and they didn't do anything sexual, you should trust him right?

It’s hilarious that you are equating having dinner together with showering together. That says way more about you than I think you realise.

re. Bed sharing. I spoke up the thread about sharing a bed with a male friend when stranded. I’ve definitely shared a tent with a male friend. DH has, I’m sure, shared beds with female friends on occasion in the 30 years we’ve been together in similar circumstances.

But as he’s actually in Barcelona visiting a longterm female friend this weekend, while I stay at home with DS and finish a work project, I’d be surprised if you find any of the norms of our relationship acceptable to you!

All I can say is that we haven’t needed to hide ourselves away from opposite-sex friends to have a happy, 30-year committed relationship. It’s sad you can only see men in sexual terms.

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:06

@GCSister That can also apply to the scenario being discussed. As you can see on this thread, having close relationships with another man outside the marriage is not the social norm for some.

Frabbits · 02/09/2023 15:07

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 14:34

@Frabbits In your opinion it's not healthy but in my opinion it's not healthy to develop close friendships with other men who aren't your partner. That's how affairs start and it's naive to think otherwise. The closer you become to someone and form a bond, the further away you can drift from your partner and then the doors are opened for an affair.

So if it's to do with trust (according to your perception) would you be ok with your partner doing anything with a woman? Showering? Sleeping in bed together?

Total, total strawman.

Obviously there are limits, but to set that limit at a partner having dinner with someone else is absurd.

ErosandAgape · 02/09/2023 15:08

SayingwhatIreallythink · 02/09/2023 15:00

This! If he has no one to go to the restaurant with, shouldn’t he give it back ?

Show quote history

The OP addressed this earlier. I think she said he raised it with the giver, who told him to use it.

It’s not as if it’s a pair of pillow cases with the initials of the (formerly) married couple monogrammed on them.

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:08

Again, my points are being twisted and having meaning applied where it was not intended by me.

I think you sharing a bed with another man and thinking it's ok says more about you than you realise. That is in no way a normal thing to do when in a relationship.

On that note, considering the manipulation evident on this thread, I'm out.

Frabbits · 02/09/2023 15:09

talkito · 02/09/2023 14:46

You're willing to sacrifice your relationship with your husband for the sake of a fancy dinner you can't afford otherwise.

I'm on your husband's side.

If he's uncomfortable with it, which is perfectly reasonable, it should have been the end of it. No need to come to the internet for that.

He's separated.
He confides in you in this hard time.
Offers to take you out on a fancy dinner, which yes, does sound like a date.

You might have innocent intents but the set up is really not good.

Ah, so if our men are uncomfortable with something, not matter how irrational it may be, we just roll over and accept it?

No, fuck that. That's not an equal relationship.

GCSister · 02/09/2023 15:11

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:06

@GCSister That can also apply to the scenario being discussed. As you can see on this thread, having close relationships with another man outside the marriage is not the social norm for some.

They key phrase is 'for some'.
In fact, I would say it's a social norm that has evolved and that society as a whole is more accepting of male/female friendships and socialising.... thankfully!
The old fashioned idea that men and women can't have platonic relationships just holds women back, particularly professionally.

Womencanlift · 02/09/2023 15:11

On that note, considering the manipulation evident on this thread, I'm out.

Challenging your point and having an opposite view is not manipulation, it’s a discussion and since your views are very different than the majority of course people are going to question it

I for you genuinely think you believe in what you are posting, unlike some others who I think are just being controversial for the sake of an argument

TedMullins · 02/09/2023 15:12

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:06

@GCSister That can also apply to the scenario being discussed. As you can see on this thread, having close relationships with another man outside the marriage is not the social norm for some.

as I said on the dog walker thread, I don’t think limiting your close emotional relationships to only your partner is good or healthy. I think it’s a positive and necessary to be emotionally close to other people, friends of both sexes. I don’t think one’s partner can be expected to cater to all your emotional needs.

GCSister · 02/09/2023 15:12

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:08

Again, my points are being twisted and having meaning applied where it was not intended by me.

I think you sharing a bed with another man and thinking it's ok says more about you than you realise. That is in no way a normal thing to do when in a relationship.

On that note, considering the manipulation evident on this thread, I'm out.

Challenging your views is not manipulation!!

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:13

@Womencanlift I beg to differ. Questioning is one thing, but the things said on this thread towards those with my views are awful. People can't open their minds to understand another way of life - there's is the right way and that's final.

Anyway, as I said, I'm out.

GCSister · 02/09/2023 15:13

as I said on the dog walker thread, I don’t think limiting your close emotional relationships to only your partner is good or healthy. I think it’s a positive and necessary to be emotionally close to other people, friends of both sexes. I don’t think one’s partner can be expected to cater to all your emotional needs.

Totally agree!!

GCSister · 02/09/2023 15:14

GrannyGoggins · 02/09/2023 15:13

@Womencanlift I beg to differ. Questioning is one thing, but the things said on this thread towards those with my views are awful. People can't open their minds to understand another way of life - there's is the right way and that's final.

Anyway, as I said, I'm out.

What has been says that is awful?
I would say you are unable of seeing another way of living though......

Stompythedinosaur · 02/09/2023 15:17

There's something so fragile about the idea that you should not do totally normal social activities with friends outside your relationship.

It would be a deal breaker to me (as would telling me what to do tbh). I don't think that's normal in a healthy relationship.

MichaelAndersen · 02/09/2023 15:20

So your husband hates a set menu more than he hates the idea of you going to a fancy dinner with a man alone? He is acting like he’s so concerned about this friend date but the set menu is like a river of crocodiles he just can’t cross in order to join you. What a weirdo. Go to the dinner. Bring home delicious leftovers and eat them right in front of him. Your husband is weird.

Womencanlift · 02/09/2023 15:24

GCSister · 02/09/2023 15:14

What has been says that is awful?
I would say you are unable of seeing another way of living though......

Show quote history

Exactly. Nothing has been said that’s awful, just challenging opinions that are very much not the norm in the UK from my experience

But since she has told us twice now she is out of here I guess we will never know 🤷‍♀️

Aprilrosesews · 02/09/2023 15:42

from the sounds of it your husband isnt usually the ‘I don’t want you to do this’ type and is reasonable. If that’s correct then I think you need to trust him and get a clear answer why he doesn’t want you to go.

a) is he feeling a bit jealous - then he’s BU. You should go and he needs to work on why he feels like that

b) is his intuition telling him somethings off - you have 2 options here.

you ask you husband to trust you and in return you will make sure you are going to dinner and watching for any signs his intuition is right and get rid off ‘we’re platonic friends’ mindset because that can make you naive and see your friends flirting as just being friendly
you respect your husbands intuition and decline the meal

i say this as someone who has had a similar scenario and that my husband would joke that my friend is in love with me. A few years in my marriage was were going through a rough patch which my friend thought would be the perfect opportunity to tell me he was in love with me and had been for years.

Your friend is in an emotionally vulnerable state and you are, from the sounds of it, a good friend and wife. It would be very easy for your friend to project his feelings onto you when you are what he wishes his wife had been.

i believe you can have truly platonic opposite sex friendships but don’t be naive enough to miss warning signs

JaneIntheBox · 02/09/2023 18:33

Aprilrosesews · 02/09/2023 15:42

from the sounds of it your husband isnt usually the ‘I don’t want you to do this’ type and is reasonable. If that’s correct then I think you need to trust him and get a clear answer why he doesn’t want you to go.

a) is he feeling a bit jealous - then he’s BU. You should go and he needs to work on why he feels like that

b) is his intuition telling him somethings off - you have 2 options here.

you ask you husband to trust you and in return you will make sure you are going to dinner and watching for any signs his intuition is right and get rid off ‘we’re platonic friends’ mindset because that can make you naive and see your friends flirting as just being friendly
you respect your husbands intuition and decline the meal

i say this as someone who has had a similar scenario and that my husband would joke that my friend is in love with me. A few years in my marriage was were going through a rough patch which my friend thought would be the perfect opportunity to tell me he was in love with me and had been for years.

Your friend is in an emotionally vulnerable state and you are, from the sounds of it, a good friend and wife. It would be very easy for your friend to project his feelings onto you when you are what he wishes his wife had been.

i believe you can have truly platonic opposite sex friendships but don’t be naive enough to miss warning signs

Edited

You put across exactly what I was trying to say. much more succinctly!

Original poster

Boogiewoogieanddance · 02/09/2023 19:49

@Aprilrosesews yes!! How you've worded it all so well is an achievement. B,1 is a great way to word it and a completely fair agreement.

The issue I have with his issue is I don't really know what it is, he's never voiced and won't voice that he has concerns about my friend (we socialise as a couple with him too and they get on) so i don't understand why coffee/breakfast/walk is fine but a dinner isn't.

I do have respect for my husband and his opinions, when I say talk him round/he'll get over it I mean to have a conversation and I believe he will see why its completely fine and that his issues with it being weird cause it's in the evening is a bit crap. If something more comes from his side I'll take it on board and reevaluate.

OP posts:

spookehtooth · 02/09/2023 20:07

I used to be uneasy about various things when I was younger, I always knew it was unreasonable but shrug if only emotions were logical, I did my best to be reasonable. Now I'm a lot more relaxed, and realistic about this. Every time you're not together, its an opportunity one of you to cheat, and most often its not going to be done openly. I feel expressing a lack of trust is damaging to a relationship, and its important to let a person be themselves. If they trust someone they shouldn't, and the relationship is healthy, I'd trust them to decline. I'd like to think they'd be comfortable with talking about it too. Concern might be a sign there's already a problem of some sort.

Aprilrosesews · 03/09/2023 00:08

The issue I have with his issue is I don't really know what it is, he's never voiced and won't voice that he has concerns about my friend (we socialise as a couple with him too and they get on) so i don't understand why coffee/breakfast/walk is fine but a dinner isn't.

if you look at it objectively as if you were dating, a coffee/breakfast/walk is a relationship builder/getting to know someone and a very nice dinner is when you’re turning the heat up a bit and trying to get into their pants 😂 that’s objectively speaking of course as I would happily go for drinks/dinners with my male friends

maybe the dinner is the thing that’s solidified that niggle he had in his head and that’s why he’s voiced this opinion now? Will you be seeing friend before this dinner? Maybe see how he reacts to those plans so you know if it’s dinner or your friendship?

If it was me I would really need to push him for an answer and wouldn’t relent till I got it but that’s my personality 😂

if he’s worried he will offend or be embarrassed that he’s jealous its a lot easier for him to agree to what you’ve said ‘I know you trust me fully but do you think friend is starting to like me/think this dinner is to intimate etc’ that him have to say ‘I think our friend is going to try it on with you’

Sanitas · 03/09/2023 08:13

Aprilrosesews has made best comment, you should listen.

Sanitas · 03/09/2023 08:41

I'll also add that few people set out to have affairs. They can happen organically over time.

I think a lot of us think affairs are deeply immoral therefore we are immoral if we have them and as few people want to be immoral as a rule, it's like they emphasise that they'd never do it.

Now there are some things that we'd never do but I'm afraid all that is required for an affair are conditions to be right.

OP's friend is really, really vulnerable to an affair, OP may just may be feeling a bit 'mumsy' at the moment if on maternity leave.

We can never ever be fully trusted not have an affair because life happens. None of us.

This is why it is, correctly, a social norm for men and women not to get too close, it's not old-fashioned it's common sense.

(For me, I've got male acquaintances I'm fond of, care about even: I once cleaned the house of an acquaintance that I knew was sick. That's fine, to care about other men. That's OK. But one on one time? No way.)

An affair isn't a heinous crime. So it's best to be real and say that we are all capable of one and be aware enough to realise that sometimes conditions are right and it seems to me they are just right for OP's friend, not her but him.

So yeah he may well make a pass which OP may refuse but embarrassment all around and the friendship won't recover.
And all for fancy meal.

GCSister · 03/09/2023 08:56

@Sanitas having an affair is still a choice. They don't happen by accident.
Human beings have agency, even if the conditions are perfect for an affair it still requires individuals to make decisions and act upon particular feelings.

As for your suggestion that men and women shouldn't get too close or form bonds due to the risk of an affair...... I'm bisexual, should I not be forming close bonds with anyone? I've asked this question a couple of times but it's still not been answered.

I'm going out for a boozy brunch with a female friend today. According to your logic my husband should be telling me not to go as there is a risk it will turn into an affair.