To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

Interesting it’s 50/50 on the poll!

For rock solid professions yes you will need upwards of degree, masters.
There are also many people that are successful without being academic.

A good education shines through regardless and is never really a hindrance.

Hmm. I have a different theory as to why men (ok, big generalisation) perform better in pub quizzes and the like. Ok, admit I’m making an assumption all the above are blokes. 🤦‍♀️
Men remember more facts and hold on to random information. But this is because their heads are not full of the overwhelming large amount of data related to the domestic minutiae and emotional labour the average woman has to carry around in her head - we have far more important stuff in our hands occupying our minds all day and night, than can cope with remembering who won World Cup in 1978, or who invented the first steam engine, or recognising country flags, or names of all the US presidents
Just saying

🤷🏼‍♀️

YABU, OP. Academic success gives you choices; your good grades gave you a choice of subjects to study. You chose to pursue a profession that doesn't pay very well, and you are doing it part-time.

If your grades were good, you could have become an accountant, lawyer or similar type of highly-paid profession. Academic success provides a launchpad, but it doesn't give you lifelong laurels to rest on.

I think personality plays a big part as well. The most successful person I know by far is my mother. She has no GCSEs (or O levels, as they were then) and left school at 16. She's now a multimillionaire, runs multiple businesses and various investments and above all is the happiest person I know. She's extremely savvy and very charming. I call her the smiling assassin as people underestimate her and then BAM she's got one over on them 😂

I suppose it depends in what sense you think it "matters". I think there is increasingly an attitude that unless good exam results and a good degree lead to a successful and well-paid career that both are ultimately pointless, which frankly is not surprising, but IMO really, really sad.

I have a first class undergrad degree from a good university, and an MA with distinction from another good university, and I'm at home with my child whom I home educate whilst my husband works. So I daresay to much of MN I would be a resounding failure, but I don't see it that way; my degrees still matter to me, and I'm glad that I did them.

I think academic achievement matters to a certain extent but other traits such as emotional intelligence, not being an overthinker, focus to do really well in a certain thing, and also ruthlessness can put you on a path for success as well as luck. It depends on the choices you made. I chose a career in academia and I earn well but I would earn twice to three times as much if I had gone into patent law or industry. But earnings are not everything. It's your experience and the choice you have too.

My DD2 got a first and is doing extremely well; work, money and accommodation wise. She's 28.

I don't think there's a one-on-one correlation, no. It's possible to make money in different ways and through different pathways. However, although you don't need to excel at academics, you need to do well enough. All my high-earning friends, including millionaires who retired at 40, have at least A levels and a uni degree and many have a Masters.

Having qualifications gives you more choices. I choose to do a not that amazingly paid professional job (lecturer) because I love it. That's my choice, but I needed a PhD to make the choice. I couldn't have done that if I'd left school at 16, although I do have a lecturer friend who did, then went back in his twenties to do O, then A levels. I could have chosen to go into the finance/consulting sphere, and have had lucrative offers from certain types of companies related to my research. None of that appeals to me, so I've chosen to earn a medium amount and have a nice life, doing something I find fantastically interesting. It's just a choice thing.

I guess then in everyday interactions with people you could have a similar perspectives to penny or be more intellectual and be like Leonard as an example.
I think I'm somewhere between the two personalities.

Yes I agree. Academics give you the start in life but from then on it's down to your "soft skills".

I don't completely agree. Good grades will never do you any harm but it's easy for good academics to give you a false sense of security about your future.

I went to a very academic, traditional girls' grammar. It was aaaaall about the grades and getting into uni and getting a 2.1 or better. We were given the impression that top employers would be falling over themselves to offer us top jobs. The reality was very different and my degree (English Literature) was pretty useless. I ended up doing bar work interspersed with free work experience at newspapers and publishing houses. Eventually secured a junior editorial role (very poorly paid) and was made redundant 18m later when the funding for my team was withdrawn.

Back to college I went to get a law diploma, then LPC, then a training contract (all while working FT and going to college in the evenings). It was HARD graft and it was drive and determination that got me through.

I now have a very well paid career (partner level) even though my academics were not the best. In contrast my sister who was straight As in every subject at school has a modestly paid role with little scope for progression. She says she couldn't cope with the long hours or office politics of my sort of career. Our parents have expressed surprise as sister was always expected to be the one with the stellar career. But it wasn't all about the grades as OP says.

I've tried to encourage my own children to do their best but to try and keep the joy of learning and keep an open mind about potential careers. One of mine is clever but not "academic" and didn't do the 11+. I think he would have been stifled at grammar even if he got in. Youngest is on track to do 11+ next year.

Totally agree. My A Level results were poor, can’t remember maybe a C,D,E. But my lifestyle now, far surpasses that of my brighter friends.

In my experience, popularity counts. Being good fun, looking good, always up for work drinks, confidence and having something about you is more important.

YABU

Things have changed in the past decade or two. Higher level qualifications are now needed for jobs/careers/professions that only needed lower grades.

I know for certain that I'd never have been accepted as a trainee member of my professional body today if I had the same A levels which I achieved back in the 80s! Their "minimum" grades have increased over time!

Of course, there are some jobs that require "a degree" which could be a third in basically any subject, but many professions require a 2:1 or above which you're not going to get if you get 3 A level grade Cs realistically!

It's all a chain reaction really. You need specific GCSEs to get places in A level (College of FE courses), you need specific A levels to get a Uni place, you need specific degree (subject and classification) to get into some professions. So, yes, by the time you leave Uni, your GCSEs are basically useless, but they were important at the time to move onto to higher education.

Don’t think you can call it either way.

Clearly if you want to be a lawyer, doctor, scientist etc it’s required and pays well. If you go, do really well then end up accepting a career that barely pays minimum wage it wasn’t worth it (Financially at least)

I left school at 17, didn’t complete A Levels or Uni and went into an IT apprenticeship that paid £8000 a year. 15 years later I’m earning 6 figures and in a role where majority of colleagues have Masters Degrees but I’m not ‘educated’ past GCSE, just a lot of experience and self education along the way.

There’s no 1 correct path to a lot of careers, but imagine University then the drive to progress afterwards makes it quicker/easier.

The three most successful people (depressingly all men!) in terms of earnings/income that I have in my inner circle all left school at 16 with very minimum qualifications and are self made multi millionaires/c suite business roles. Also, all share the same name!

It’s a grey area, I think- people can do exceptionally well in life with or without exams. Dh came from an extremely rough area, came top of his class throughout school and college, got a scholarship from a top computer company to do an PhD and got a really good job. He always says it was his exams that made him stand out, that a lot of jobs wouldn’t have touched him based on where he was from, the schools he went to and his accent but they couldn’t ignore the marks. That’s an extreme example though, as you’ve said, there’s a lot of people I know that have varying exams and got to pretty much the same place

Ps my most successful friend out of us from college did first year and then went to work in a pharmaceutical co. We did too, but after three years when she was already a supervisor

I think this is probably quite location dependent, either that or it's just your social circle, as that's not really my experience. Some areas of the UK just don't have the same graduate job market that others do. Graduates will be limited pretty much to the public sector (teachers etc), and will consequently not be paid that well compared to those in the trades or business owners. Conversely, if you're somewhere (e.g. London), where there's commercial law firms, investment banks etc, graduates get paid a very high premium. I think you have quite a different social circle to me, as the people I know who went to Oxbridge and other elite universities are the ones who by and large got the high paying jobs in the commercial law firms and investment banks. Ime at the graduate recruitment stage, the uni you went and your academic record is very important. It matters less as you get older, but that's only as you've gained experience, and to get that experience you need the academic success to get your feet in the right doors.

I think grades really only matter to get into university and then programs after that, ie a master's; and then for personal satisfaction.
Studying and retention ability in academic settings vary. I think intelligence shines in practical application of knowledge, ability to think on one's feet and learn from mistakes and collaboration ability.

It’s not always the actual results that matter but it’s all the things they learn along the way. This is why apprenticeships focus so much on developing functional, employability and life skills. Having a good education and grounding in the fundamentals of literacy, numeracy and critical thinking generally provides greater access to personal independence and career opportunities.

I think the way we frame education in this country is really poor. Many young people just don’t understand the future opportunities and daily life functions that arise from having a decent education so they dismiss it. That’s our fault as a society really.

It depends what you do with it. You can't fuck up your GCSEs, party and prioritise "happiness" and then expect a 6 figure job in your late 20s. However, that is absolutely possible if you have excellent academics as you can choose to go into corporate law or investment banking or tech. You don't have that choice without the academics.

There are of course other paths for success but academics are a great way to move up quickly if you're from a working class family.

what if they want to be doctors?

I think it’s partly academic success, then partly ambition and a drive to work hard that leads to an higher chance of success.

Great academic success + ambition/drive = very high rate of financial success.

Academic success + no ambition/drive and you won’t do as well.

Little academic success + big ambition and drive = a great chance to be very successful in life.

Little academic success + no ambition/drive = very little chance of financial success in later life.

I think what this comes down to is that you have to pick a lucrative career (if money is important you).

You have to study a course/do an apprenticeship/learn a trade that pays well and where your skills are in demand.

This is much more important than being academic.

Agree. I work with a lot of people, most of who have a uni degree (I don't), but I earn more than a lot of them. I always think what was the point? Unless you need a degree for something specific.