To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

I don't really understand the obsession to pay off student loan, it's basically just like a graduate tax, not like a normal loan, as it's linked to your income so if you ever lose job / go part time etc the payments will stop or reduce.

I've gone part time after having a child and now pay off about £19 a month, I couldn't care less if the whole thing ever gets paid off or written off. When I was earning more yes it was a bit annoying to have a larger chunk go to SL, but I was earning more so didn't miss that money as much.

Getting good grades isn't an automatic pass to a lucrative or amazing career, but it does open up choices and options.

Getting good grades and focussing on happiness aren't mutually exclusive, but yes if I had to choose between the two for my child it would be happiness.

But do think it's worth pushing through a little bit of stress to get good grades otherwise you may be limiting your options in the future!

It’s better than it not being written off at all. Which I think with the latest loan system they are changing to some extent.

It’s assumption that you see banded about a lot that it’s only low paid grads who didn’t really need to do a degree to do their job are the ones who will have the loan written off that annoys me. I know that isn’t what you said but it’s something I’ve seen mentioned more times than I care to count.

I think it’s great that you aspire for your kids to have something that you clearly didn’t have. Your comprehension is terrible. So is your grasp of English.

@Ilikepinacoladass agreed that good grades, working hard and happiness are not mutually exclusive. And seeing hard work paying off with good grades makes you happy so they're also linked.

My DCs are under no illusions that they are expected to work hard at school but they are happy nevertheless. They are very self motivated though which makes things easier.

Well, I couldn't, but:

1. If he died, I would receive a large life insurance pay out so would be fine.
2. If he left me, firstly I would be entitled to enough maintenance that it would cover a mortgage and bills on a smaller place alongside my part time wage, but also - I'd go back to work full time. That's easily done. I don't remember ever even telling employers whether or not I'd worked part time, only that I'd worked - they don't care. I interview people all the time and don't recall ever asking someone if their last role was part time or full time because it really doesn't matter.

Your jealously is showing very hard.

Well, I couldn't, but:

This is difference between you and me, I can afford to pay the mortgage on my own.

So could I if I worked full time, which I could easily do if I took on 3 extra clients (which I would easily get, since I'm constantly getting recommended and turning work down because I'm fully booked).

I don't really see what the issue is. I don't need to be able to pay the mortgage on my own under my current earnings. But if I did need to, I would be able to. HTH.

😆

Dear God, just when you thought the weirdness had fully peaked 😁
Who do you think is jealous of you, @anonymousxoxo , and what are you basing it on, exactly?!

Based on the fact you don't value education and that success isn't measured with education when high paying jobs require a degree. Your naivety says it all really.

So many rich people give donations to private schools and send their children to be privately education. In addition, fork out for tuition.

Wonder why Russell Group universities exist?

^ Ignorance of all that.

Why do so many international students come to UK to do English/British degrees? Because they're valued.

I don't have to rely on clients, thankfully - wouldn't like to live like that.

It's not just the student loan it's the additional money needed alongside it. Unless your family is on a very low income parents need to top up, but the calculation ONLY takes into account income at the time of application (or average of a couple of years before, can't remember which). For the maintenance loan, not the tuition fees which is covered for everyone.

Many parents with an average/ok income on paper can't afford it due to debt, multiple DC in uni at the same time, large mortgages (in the SE for a normal family home). Added to that, university accommodation costs and everything else has also become dramatically more expensive.

Students can work during their degrees and in the summer but it's not always enough.

Personally as a parent if I had a truly academic DC, passionate etc etc I'd scrimp and save to send them but if they were just 'meh' about it they'd have to get a job first. Once they have lived independently they can also apply to be assessed on their own, rather than parental income as a mature student.

I don't think it really matters who gets it written off, at the end of the day it's just a graduate tax that you pay for 30/40 and then it stops.

That's twice you've informed me that I "don't value education". Based on what, exactly? Or do you moonlight as Mystic Meg?

Then, what's your problem?

I don't have a problem?

Then, stop quoting me

Why? You're talking complete bollocks.

I asked you to elaborate but you haven't...

Yes my original point was that it's probably best not to see academic achievement purely as a means to an end (ie a lucrative career). Like you say if you had a passionately academic child then you'd try hard to send them to uni - I assume because you think they will appreciate and enjoy it and it will enrich their lives, as well as opening up more possibilities for them, not purely because you think it's a automatic pass to an amazing job.

Hmm, I think there's a bit of nuance there. Not disputing what you said, but.
Let's say I had DC who loved history. Participated in local history clubs, young historian competitions etc, and academically inclined and wanted to be a historian. I'd make lots of sacrifices to enable that.
But if DC only had a mild interest, liked the idea of going to uni to study history because it sounds like 'something they'd enjoy' I wouldn't be rushing to fund them. I'd need them to have a solid plan.
Of course this is a great idea in theory, in practice funding uni for one DC and not another causes resentment. What many parents do is have a lump sum available for each child (whatever they can afford) and it's up to them to make the most of it. Others match what the kids have saved. Some take a gap year and work FT, others use what they've saved up from working since they were teenagers.

Would you only send them if they specifically knew they wanted to be a historian though? Most degrees don't work like that, they aren't job specific and most people don't necessarily know what job they want it to lead to. Most degrees aren't like technical training courses which automatically qualify you for a job, and to manage expectations it's probably best not to see them like that. They do open up possibilities though. You are unlikely to become an astronaut for instance without some kind of science degree.

There's a distinction here between 'degree' and going away to uni for 3 years.
You cannot become a historian without a relevant academic degree, for example so if my child was very strongly inclined towards that then yes, I would support that. Or any profession that specifically required a history degree.
If they have no specific ambitions then why would I pay so much for them to do a History degree when they could go another route? Apprenticeship, part-time degree at a university near home in something else. There are also vocational qualifications (like the ACA) where you can do a final project and get a top-up degree just to tick the box.
If one argues that all degrees have 'transferable skills' and generally 'open doors' and 'teach you to learn' then there's zero reason to kill yourself supporting DC doing something specific if they're going to end up at the same starting point as others. If you're interested in say History there's nothing stopping you from reading books at home, attending public lectures etc. Knowledge is open now and can be found everywhere not just universities.

I interview and hire a lot of graduates for 'generic' as well as 'specific' roles. I also review CV's for a youth organisation and mentor young people. There's a lot of regret from people who, while they enjoyed their degree subject , weren't interested to the point of it being a burning intellectual passion. They regret their original choice of degree subject.

Thousands of pounds of parental money and a one-time loan at 18 - those are very hard decisions to make for a young person and it isn't helped by the lack of career counselling. Which is why, as I stated earlier, it's good for people to get a bit of life experience. For every 'I did a degree because everyone else was doing one and got a fabu job' there are others with regrets. Of course, unless you do a statistical survey you won't know which is more, but from my anecdotal observation very few graduates are truly intellectually invested in their degree subject. It was, 'given' that they had to go to uni, and one of a 'certain' calibre, what subject to pick, rather than the other way around.

Which is why actually, I agree with you. Degrees aren't technical training courses (well, 3 year FT degrees) unfortunately that is what they are now seen as with everyone immediately being shoved into uni because it's the 'done thing'.