To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

I did the bare minimum at school and got top grades. I think it's more that you shouldn't be trying so hard to learn that it would exceed your abilities to maintain that standard.

I often think that academic success has little to do with good interpersonal skills, confidence, presentation skills etc. which appear to be more valued in many workplaces. It's easy to get a 2:1 and hardly ever speak to anyone. As an introvert with good exam results, my anxiety/nerves/awkwardness have held me back a lot.

The majority of high earners have strong academic qualifications. The lawyers, investment bankers, top surgeons and CEOs rarely got their with a few GCSEs

The experience of individuals and thd people they know will vary.

At a population level, these are the statistics in terms of having a university degree or not in England.

"University graduates in England had an average annual salary of 38,500 British pounds a year in 2022, 11,500 pounds higher than the average salary for non-graduates. People with postgraduate degrees earned an even higher average salary at 45,000 pounds, a difference of 6,500 pounds when compared with those with only undergraduate degrees."

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191970/annual-salary-of-graduates-in-england/#:~:text=Average%20annual%20salary%20of%20graduates,graduates%20in%20England%202007%2D2022&text=University%20graduates%20in%20England%20had,average%20salary%20for%20non%2Dgraduates.

I think op means it doesn't matter if they get say six grade 5 at gcse and a btec merit or b/c at a level not fail completely. Instead of 10 9s and 3 a's.

In my experience that’s true. My two degrees are pretty irrelevant to my current work. My DH doesn’t have A levels let alone degree and he’s far more senior and highly paid than me. For my kids I’d tell them to prioritise work experience, life skills, common sense, emotional maturity - over exams.

If you leave school with no exams most doors will be closed to you.
If you leave school with the bare minimum to get an interview (Maths/English grade 4) possibly it doesn’t matter so much.

Having good grades and bring socially good are not mutually exclusive.

The people I know who have been most successful (by their own terms) in their careers have been those who were willing/able to put themselves out there and push for things. Even the ones who look “lucky” to the casual observer had been active before then making connections or applying for many many jobs. I don’t do this!

It matters in its own right. Education is about more than getting a job, or getting a well paid job.

I interview and review cvs a lot. Academics in my line of work make an ENORMOUS difference.

Absolutely huge.

So yeah you’re being unreasonable.

As an introvert with good exam results, my anxiety/nerves/awkwardness have held me back a lot.

But equally there are some jobs where academic qualifications would be a lot more important than good interpersonal skills.

I'm a teacher, like the OP, so I need both. I teach languages. While just being able to speak a language fluently might make me able to teach someone to speak it, I wouldn't have got my current job in a lovely, excellent girls' grammar school, teaching A Level literature etc, without my academic qualifications. In fact, as a 51yo, experienced therefore expensive, teacher with an extremely patchy and holey cv since having dc, and having been recently rejected my multiple other schools due to age and budget 'lack of recent full time experience', I suspect my Oxbridge degree was a big part of what got me in the door.

I am pretty sure at a population level, higher academic success correlates to higher earning potential.

This doesn't mean that these people are happier or that it always correlates at individual level. We all know people who bombed school who have got amazing jobs, and people who were really successful at school who have non academic low paying job. I know an oxbridge grad for example who works in admin and I work with people who have high earning jobs who didn't go to uni.

However I know more people who didn't do great at school and now have low paying jobs and people who went to good unis who are now very high earners (consultants, City finance and City lawyers) who couldn't have got there without those qualifications.

I do agree you shouldn't push kids to do more than they are capable of and you should also teach them to have a good work life balance, and also a big one for me is to think about the money and the hours / shifts when choosing a career

I pretty much agree with you. All of my siblings left school young (I was 13, my sister 12 and my brother 9! Traveller family...) and I'm the only one who went back to college and got a degree and now a well paid professional job. But my siblings both earn about the same as me as tattooists now. I think if you have the capacity to succeed you will regardless of the route you take to get there. We're all happy which I think is the main thing - I loved my degree and love my work and my siblings feel the same about their jobs

I think this is often forgotten on threads like these.

The bonus of academic success is about the doors it opens, even if you never choose those routes (over and above the merit for educations sake which is a given)

I had a number of options from my good A levels that werent open if i had only poor gcses. If i had a degree I am sure there would have been even more options.

Its not to say though, that through hard work and effort you cant open doors in other ways. But its just that. A different form of hard work and effort. I dont know anyone who fucked about at school, then fucked about at work who did ok.

A lot of the very richest people seem to have done pretty badly in their qualifications.

However, probably for everyone who does badly at school and makes it rich there are probably hundreds if not thousands more that live in poverty.

I think doing well at school/university probably sets you up for a more middling position. You will never be poor as an engineer/accountant/IT but you are unlikely to ever be stonking rich either as you end up working mostly in a big company for someone else on a relatively decent but not massive wage.

It's the people who leave school at 16 who have 10 businesses go bust before they are 21 that can make it to be billionaires. Unless you are born into money that is.

If you have energy, drive and ambition then you can be rich I think irrespective of what happens at school. For some people school doesn't work and it takes them time to find their place in the world. Even for some of the tech bro billionaires it is clearly obvious that they have struggled in the education environment, even if they have eventually made it to Uni.

Not everyone is academic and for those who have more of an aptitude for more practical skills then I would encourage towards their skill set. DH is dyslexic (not recognised at school) and left with very few qualifications. He does a creative/practical job but I think in previous years there was probably more scope for this.

Although my dad was dissuaded by his parents from going to grammar school because they wanted him to leave at 15 and learn a trade so he could contribute to household finances.

However academic results do tend to open more choices. My message to my DC is that if you try and fail it's not the end of the world, there will be other options....but I'd expect them to try because having good results will usually give them more options.

I completely agree with you that happiness & social wellbeing are more important than academics, although it isn’t necessarily an either / or situation and if possible it’s better to have both.

Nobody gives a flying fart now what I got in my GCSEs or A Levels. But, these grades had a bearing on the subjects and courses I could study later, and ultimately laid the foundation for the career I am doing now. If I had flunked my GCSEs then I wouldn’t have been on the same path. I might have done very well at a different path, but the two futures aren’t interchangeable.

So I do think grades are important, just not all-important.

I don’t agree that academic success doesn’t matter. It opens doors and can smooth the path to where you would like to travel. What I tell my kids though is that soft skills are of equal importance. Communication skills, the ability to maintain networks…things I didn’t have any awareness of as a student!

It can be important but can be overrated. I think with the 50% or so university target we have replaced the stigma of failing the 11 plus of old with a new divide.

I even think that providing you have GCSE English Language and Maths you should be able to leave formal education at 16.

This type of job is obviously what the OP was caveating… but don’t let that stop your not so stealth boast 😂

A levels are seen as a way to get to university. The problem is the "Mickey mouse degrees" and not choosing a degree that's going to lead to an actual job. I did GCSEs that I needed to get into college. Went to college for accountancy and got by first job in it at 18. Whilst working studied CIMA. No uni, no debt and earning at the same time. Hard hard graft but worth it. Friend did A levels, did media at uni now works as a receptionist as she can't get a job with her degree.

I work in academia and most people have PhDs so in my world YABU.

I’m very confused by this idea that being happy and having a good social life and getting top grades are mutually exclusive. I’m hoping my DC will manage both. I agree that it’s not the be all and end all but it makes life easier.

I think academic success buys you more choice. And some of those extra choices you get can be incredibly interesting, fulfilling and/or lucrative.

Life is also full of things that restrict people's choices - having people they need to care for, or mental health difficulties for example. These can happen to anyone. But that doesn't mean good grades don't make a difference.