To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

Yes, horses for courses. I am still doing degrees for fun because it makes me happy! I am eternally grateful to my first uni for the opportunity to study some very specialised stuff not offered anywhere else in the UK, although it wasn't the academic path I chose to pursue. And now I get to share all of that with my own students!

The other side of the coin is that trades are totally undervalued, and also pay very well when people get good at what they do and are in demand. Your lawyers and accountants are presumably living in houses built by people with skills that they themselves don't have, and are earning good money despite not being 'academic'.

I was thinking of all those poor young girls of 14 years old, being told by the Taliban that's it, off you go home, hide indoors no more education for you.

I bet they have a very different opinion about the relevance of learning, and I bet they'd find a way to put their qualifications to good use.

I mean, trades are underappreciated by those who only value academic success.

If what you value in life is wealth, then clearly not necessarily. My parents raised me with a "as long as you're happy, not hurting anyone and doing something you enjoy" mindset, but I was a very academic child, enjoyed learning and, had health issues not intervened, would probably have been an Oxbridge type in terms of my performance/results. My parents stressed that academic performance will open certain doors, yes, and that it would be a shame not to use my intellect, but that qualifications themselves were not a reflection of intelligence/capability, rather a hoop to jump through and an opportunity to learn about things.

I did go on to a RG uni, then worked in education for a bit thinking I might want to teach, and am now back doing a second undergraduate degree for a career change, at an ex-Poly, because I preferred the module content there and the course comes with standardised professional accreditation regardless of uni. Once I graduate and get some experience I will have quite good earning potential, but am never going to be the sort to chase a triple figure salary, because I've always cared more about doing a job I believe in and see personal, ethical value in, and frankly for me that doesn't tend to overlap with particularly high pay. I'm fine with that.

All this to say - it depends what you want from life. But if you want the maximum number of options available to you, then yes, doing well academically is still going to give you the most bang for your buck imo, as long as you also develop social skills and are a well-rounded person. It isn't the be all and end all, but then I don't think any one rule about life really is, aside from generally just trying not to be an arse of a person.

It depends on the career you want. If it is a high income, this can be achieved on working a trade like being an electrician or plumber etc. If you want to
be a brain surgeon, lawyer etc, you need qualifications.
A good education and qualifications open up doors.

Really depends on where you go woth your education, so many jobs require high grades from a-level to degree. But i also think those who partied or slacked off dont always benefit from other skills you gain while in education that help towards getting a job. Such as time management, critical thinking, dealing with a heavy work load (particularly at degree level) and just being able to apply ans commit. Lots of people don't do so well in school because the environment is not right for them, then they excell outside of education. Regardless, school is important but it doesn't mean its the decider on your future because there are lots of alternative routes for most jobs

And just to add - I think it's more what it takes to perform well academically for most of us that will, in the longer stretch of adulthood, open doors for you, not the grades themselves - e.g. hard work, perseverance, an enquiring mind, being someone who can see and capitalise on opportunities etc. Again, I think qualifications in the current educational system are in many senses hoops to jump through more than anything else, and you can certainly make a very good living for yourself going down a trade/vocational route too. Social skills and confidence are equally important for success in most fields either way.

I think people are forgetting that you need GCSEs in maths and English for most jobs these days. What people did 20 or 30 years ago is irrelevant to today's job market.

I agree that a lot of jobs that ask for degree educated staff don't actually need people educated to degree level, but saying that qualifications don't matter is naive at best.

You seem to equate success with earning potential and yy if that's the only reason you studied at school then you'd be disappointed. But education and academic success is about so much more than that. It's about learning, about developing a passion for a subject or topic. It's about understanding the world, politics, history. It's about opportunity. We have friends with very successful businesses but tbh they haven't had access to the same experiences and people as our friends who were more academic.
As someone who grew up in a deprived area, my academic success has opened so many doors and given me so many opportunities. It has shaped the entire course of my life so yy for me it did matter

Every time I have a whinge about this, dh just shrugs and says:"well, you went into teaching." A factory near me pays not far off the top end of a main scale teacher salary, but it would drive me nuts. And I don't have the physical strength for the role.

I think often in school, if you have the piss taken out of you for being good academically you console yourself with the idea that at least one day you'll have a good job and the pricks won't.

Except, one day you realise that it's just different paths. I'd like my dc to do well, but they won't need the clean sweep I got in order to do so.

How come you know all these teachers who do the same job as you but failed their exams. Most teachers still need a degree.

And also, why as someone who is delivering learning to people, are you so sure that academic success doesn’t matter? Should a teacher be pushing this?

In terms of salary, I think there’s another key thing at play: most people don’t actively pursue a high salaried position/job from the outset.

From my experience that’s what sets private school attending kids apart - most of them will make Money a big consideration right from the outset, ie from the age of 16 or 18 they’re being told to think about earnings. Whereas the equally bright, or brighter kid in state secondary school will be more trying to get good grades for their own sake.

If you want a highly paid career you have to actively pursue it - it won’t just drop from the sky after a bunch of good GCSEs + A-Levels and then a 2:1 at a decent university. That’s the reason why some trades people etc do well - as they first identify a strength they have and then vigorously apply that to a gap in the market with the goal of making as much money as possible.
As opposed to the bright student who just does a degree in history/English/modern art or drama etc just because it’s quite interesting or just because they like it.

You chose a career path that always been low paying and doesn't really warrant A grades to do it as shown by your examples.
Your A grades could have got you in a career in which they were needed more.
It is possible to make more money in teaching if for example you go into leadership./exec roles but then it is no longer about the grades but who has the drive.

I am similar. In work in health care. I have a first class honours and a masters. My career has plateaued now, partly because it has a natural ceiling if I want to stay clinical and partly because I choose to work part time. My husband got a desmond in an easy degree. But he works in the right industry and plays the money game. He earns well over 6 figures.

We make our choices.

I think it depends - I went to Uni and earn a lot more than my friends who didn’t. They’ve still done ok in their life though. My DS and DD are both really academic and my DS I’m sure will go far

If what you value in life is wealth, then clearly not necessarily.
But anyone with intelligence would not see that as their number one priority surely?

All of the highest earners that I know did very well academically. They are software developers, lawyers, accountants, bankers etc. None of them could have got where they are without doing well at school and uni.

OP you could have made much more of your academic achievements if you had chosen a different career path. You must have known that as a teacher you wouldn’t be earning a great deal and would have colleagues who weren’t particularly academic.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Funnily enough, studies showed that teachers have very little effect on academic outcome. A recent twin study suggests the classroom/teacher is only responsible for 2-3% of academic outcome. IE 97%-98% of what makes a child’s academic performance see due to factors outside of the classroom.

Of course it makes a difference. I might not be earning more than a plumber, but I'd much rather be doing what I am doing than fixing toilets.

Academic success gives you choice and opportunity, it doesn't mean you have to be a CEO or you've failed.

@Pocketfullofdogtreats I totally agree with this. Schools value academic qualifications and pathways far more highly than trades (which is, in many circumstances, hugely ridiculous as, as anyone who knows successful tradespeople will know, there is a lot of money to be made in these professions). I overheard my head teacher talking to the careers advisor at my school saying 'please have a good chat with Henry, he's predicted 6s and 7s but he's determined he wants to be a plumber' (the disgust on her face when she said this was immense). Fact is, schools are measured against their exam results as well as the pathways students choose to take, with favour being given to academic routes (such as A levels and university).

Without wanting to come across as too tin hat about all of this, there definitely seems to be questionable motives behind the drive to prioritise and incentivise traditional academic pathways for all students, regardless of their suitability for it (not to mention societies need for ALL types of workers and professions).

I did well academically but I am not in a very high paid job (science)
But I do it for the love of it. Its how I am built.
I am good at maths and logic, rubbish at arts
I never think I wish I hadn't bothered because x is earning this because that isn't the career I chose
I never think y has a better life because they partied more as each person is different.

I think it totally depends. I was very academic and now I’m a teacher. My DP dropped out of university, and now earns three times as much as me as a senior supervisor. I love my job though and wouldn’t want to do anything else.

I disagree. With academic success you open up choices that might not otherwise be there. I left school after achieving 1 A level and took a job as a sort of admin/typist. It took me years to progress to where I am, a fairly successful IT PM but others walked in to my level of role with a degree behind them and got there 10 years earlier.

I always say to my sons, it doesn't matter if you want to go live up a tree for 2 years, but succeeding at school, by trying your hardest means that there will more choice for you when you decide to come back down from that tree.

Depends if he was packing in his education to become a plumber
You can still be an academically high achiever AND be a plumber
as others said completing a good academic education opens more doors
you might not need it for your preferred job, but its always there if you choose a career change or something happens that we no longer need plumbers

Can you link this please? It's the opposite of a lot of current thinking about good teaching being the critical factor in attainment.

There are obvious reasons why this government might like to blame poor teaching rather than poverty for underattainment, but I'm not aware of the study you mention so would be very interested to see it.