To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

I used to work in the civil service in Northern Ireland as an administrator assistant. The amount of people with two or three degrees, masters etc who went to private and grammar school, were still doing the same job as me.

This. And because my dc were bright they didn't have to spend hours studying, they did party etc.

Mmm... don't really agree with you to be honest.
I think I get what you are saying - you can be successful even if you don't do well at school. That is definitely true. It means that if someone flunks their A-levels (or their GCSEs) they are not a write off and they will be able to find a good job and do well. But they will be restricted in the choice of what they can do. They could resit. They could do a foundation year to get to university, But they won't be able to just pick anything and walk into that career.

We can quote plenty of examples of people who did very well academically at school and/or university and seemingly haven't reached their potential careerwise. But there can be many reasons for that - poor physical health, mental health struggles, burn out, having to care for family members, abusive relationships, simply not wanting a high-powered career, plus many other reasons.
But, by and large, people who have done very well academically tend to go on to do very well in life. I can think of several examples of people in my school year who were very very clever and have gone on to have high-flying careers.

@Longagonow96 - I'm sure @viques is right about her GF and his frustrations. But of course, how a person responds to the situation they're in is a very important facet of their character, it's not simple. They may take it out on their family, or they can make what they can of themselves and strive to ensure their kids have more opportunities than they did.
One of my GFs left his impoverished Durham mining family as a very young man, started as a Hardyesque hired farm labourer, rose to become a foreman in a coke works. But his sons, in the years between the wars, got places in grammar schools and then scholarships to Manchester and Oxford universities. Probably helped that he married a teacher. Well hell yes, academic success can matter!

However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing.

It’s 30s, not 30’s. It’s As, not A’s. You do not need an apostrophe.

"..then entered RAF as a career, got all his education there..."

So proving that education is important.

If people are able to easily access education after their school years, then no, results in school may not matter so much.

I've a PhD. I could probably be earning the same money in the same job without it, but money is not the only thing I judge success by.
Also, from my experience, science PhDs tend to be party central so no missing out.

Can we move away from this, often rolled out, narrative that ‘trades’ don’t require qualifications - try getting past level 2 (gcse equivalent) without maths and English either at college or an apprenticeship - level 3 (actually qualified as a spark/plumber/ mechanic) requires qualifications

Well the two most successful people I know are

1. Scraped into uni. Dropped out of Uni, is very senior in tech
2. Studied hard. Good good grades. Is a neurosurgeon.

What they have in common is ambition and work ethic

Completely depends on the sector / job you want to get into.

My DH got a first in Maths and then a masters in data analytics - it helped him to start a stellar career in data / marketing

I got a 2.1 from a new poly - which I needed to get in a FTSE 100 company graduate scheme - you probably don't need this now but was definitely needed 25 years ago.

I hope that bit of unnecessary nastiness made you feel better about yourself.

No, I don’t think it’s true that academic success absolutely doesn’t matter at all.

Firstly, as many others have said, at a population level, there’s a high level of correlation between academic success and professional success.

Also, as @ghostyslovesheets says, almost all decent jobs require a base level of academic success and education. Not 9s at A-level and an Oxbridge first, but passes in the core subjects at GCSE.

But being motivated and personable count for just as much. I know many highly academic people who thought that an Oxbridge degree meant that the world owed them a living and had a real shock when they discovered it didn’t mean that at all. Conversely I know people with mediocre academics who’ve been highly successful on account of being motivated and personable.

I don't think it's just about grades no but I think you are forgetting that school teaches you much more than that. Being disruptive and smoking behind the bike sheds, although is funny at 14, doesn't get you far and those people you mention are lucky. You are unlikely to be in the circles of those who didn't make it out of that and are trapped in the cycle of poverty and anti social behaviour. Education is the fastest way out of poverty.

I spend most of my working days talking to bright students about the subjects I've been passionate about for over 30 years. That matters to me. I am sure that I could have earned more, but at the expense of giving up my academic passions. I'm still studying and sitting exams, for pleasure. So, horses for courses.

Academic success gives you choices.

You can still be a tradesman if you want with academic success, but the other way round the route is closed.

Also, anecdotal, for me my academic success has given me confidence. So whilst I didn't technically need my As to do my own business, I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to go for it without them.

I really want to believe this because one of my children isn't very academic at all and Ill be over the moon if they come out of school with a few grade 5 GCSEs, however she is very funny, sociable and eloquant which I'm hoping will help her in any career she chooses. My other child is polar opposite sails through school with top grades but finds chatting to adults and new people much harder than DC1. I hope they both do well.

I have been going to a few secondary schools over the last 18 months, my DS1 is starting at one next week.

One head teacher told me something interesting - Maths A Level is the only subject linked to higher earnings - I was quite astounded by that. I said what about sciences or languages, he said 'No. The only A level that has a direct correlation to higher earnings is maths'

This guy is a 'super head' and an ofsted inspector so I am assuming he knew what he was talking about

Well good for your DF. I don’t think the RAF was around when my Grandad was young, and they didn’t seem to care much about educating young recruits before they shipped them out in their hundreds of thousands to the trenches in France.

And no, he was well regarded at his workplace, the issue was that he reached a point when he couldn’t progress because his lack of formal education was held against him.

Grades aren't everything, but you do need certain grades to open doors to further education and training, including training in 'hands on' jobs or 'trades'.

I think what this more starkly exposes is that a lot of people lack good quality careers advice around age 18 and again after graduation for those who do degrees. So many people end up 'stuck' in jobs they don't enjoy despite having the ability to do better. This is the problem I think.

It’s not everything but it gives you choices. My mum was annoyed that her mum never encouraged her at school or supervised her homework. She made sure to do that with us and we all have been very successful from a modest background. I’ve been the same with my kids.

This is getting harder to do now I think .Most "good " jobs require a decent level of education .Also I think it helps you in day to day life as well,giving you confidence .I think a degree will always be useful

If you want to make money, that's a different skill to exams and coursework.

Which is not to say they are mutually exclusive. But they're different skills and they don't have to go together.

Depends on what you want to do in life.

Being academic and doing well at school gives you options for different careers whereas if you’ve done less well then there will only be certain careers you can consider.

My mum always encouraged me to do well at school to keep my options open for example I could’ve been a doctor with my grades but I could also have gone onto be a hairdresser.

My current job role I wouldn’t be in now if I hadn’t done well at school, need at least a B in A level Maths and a numerate degree in my field, so I disagree when you say it doesn’t matter.

We can quote plenty of examples of people who did very well academically at school and/or university and seemingly haven't reached their potential careerwise. But there can be many reasons for that - poor physical health, mental health struggles, burn out, having to care for family members, abusive relationships, simply not wanting a high-powered career, plus many other reasons.
But, by and large, people who have done very well academically tend to go on to do very well in life. I can think of several examples of people in my school year who were very very clever and have gone on to have high-flying careers.

Just quoting you as an example but taking on board all comments-also the one about work ethic/ambition. I really really always hoped to do well in life but I can't blame my lack of success on anything other than bad luck and perhaps something about me personally that I've yet to identify. I did have 'unfortunate' relationships but nothing that held back my work ethic, and am from a family of success stories.

The first company I went to work for following Uni I worked so, so hard (family were worried about how late I often stayed at work) but got nowhere, got passed over for promotions, at one point I accidentally (blabber mouth colleague) learned that I was the only member of staff in the whole department who was totally left out of the bonus structure. Ended up being bullied and left.

Went to work in civil service, similar sort of thing and eventually couldn't handle the hours but was not allowed to change them despite others having been granted different hours and new staff being taken on with fixed hours rather than shifts. Again worked very hard, did my job to the best of my ability and certainly took a lot more care than many colleagues. Supervisor began bullying me (he had form but hadn't been as bad as he was with me) had to leave before I cracked up.

Retrained and got a job teaching my subject(the one I'd retrained in not my degree subject) and the company went bust within a few months. Now I am on my ass again scraping freelance work together. I keep looking for jobs but nothing suitable has ever come up

It's a bit less surprising on second thoughts. 'Top' Stem and economics courses require or prefer maths a level (sometimes fm too). It may generally be weaker students, or ones who don't know what they're going to do at uni/checked course requirements and contents who do science a levels without maths. The stats may be skewed by the exceptionally high earnings of some highly numerate graduates (does the analysis use means or medians?).