To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

I didn’t say anyone should be uneducated. I said the schooling system needs an overhaul because it’s focusing on the wrong things. I have colleagues who did brilliantly at school and university and who are terrible teachers. I have colleagues who performed averagely and they’re brilliant, not just at helping kids get good exam results, but helping them to become well-rounded adults who know how to work hard, problem solve, work as a team, think critically, and do all the other things that actually lead to success in life, not just success in exams. My problem is with schooling, not education.

The reality is high paying careers need degrees. The rich want to privatise education and previously working class weren’t able to obtain a degree. It was seen as a middle/upper class thing to do. People (especially working class) should be encouraged towards education.

I’d agree that academic achievement isn’t necessarily financially rewarded.

University lecturers, for example, have to be highly educated, but it’s not going to make them rich nowadays. Same for people in public sector- highly qualified but not paid mega bucks.

but many high paying professions do require a lot of study, so it’s very complex.

however, it all depends what you mean by success…

Education=/= degree. There are plenty of Level 6 Qualifications (degree level in the NVQ framework) that are not 'degrees', yet somehow people are obsessed with the notion of the latter.
You really don't need degrees for highly paid careers. The generic is being high up in a company and most 'upper management' doesn't need academic intelligence actually it needs the skills of political game playing, BS and more importantly handling stress and other people's unreasonable expectations. How writing essays/academic work qualifies you for that, I'd love to know!

Everyone should be encouraged towards education yes but that shouldn't take a single default form. And as to what a PP said w.r.t education... many other quals/'degrees' don't involve exams anyway so what's the point of the obsessive focus on those?

So doctors, vets, lawyers, finance and stem etc shouldn’t have degrees? Atrocious a teacher is saying this. I definitely wouldn’t want you teaching my children that higher education doesn’t matter. Pathetic and hypocritical to say the very least.

Education is very important. Without education we cannot read or write. Being numerate is important to understand numbers and bills as an example.

To have a career and niche, degree shows that you’ve got that skill and knowledge.

Lets take you for example; your education degree shows you can teach and have passed government testing to help you have the job today.

Without your teachers and lecturers (education) you’d be unemployed.

You’re speaking from a privileged position.

What about girls in let’s say India, parents refuse to educate was they’re girls? They’d rather educate boys. Then, what?

@anonymousxoxo I'm not the teacher, that was another poster but even so you seem incapable of understanding the point people are making.
Education is good. Excessive focus on exams is not. Solely equating top marks in exams and degrees to an education is not.
Are you aware of the NVQ framework and what each level of qualification entails?

Also laughing at the privileged position, my mother was not educated because she was a girl and you assume that I am privileged. You don't know who you're talking to on the internet, best not to assume things, eh? A false equivalence doesn't support your point.

Nothing you have said is of relevance.

You don’t know the value of British education.

I’m done communicating with someone who doesn’t see the value of education.

And FYI I’m educated to masters level, I know exactly what NVQ entails.

I wouldn’t want a teacher/doctor who failed to achieve 50% in their exams. I wouldn’t want my education or surgery botched. But, clearly you both are happy for that to happen 😳

my mother was not educated because she was a girl and you assume that I am privileged you would think having these experiences would make you value education more and the marks.

But, clearly you’re very comfortable having teachers/doctors/vets/finance/stem with very mediocre degrees and botching up work!

Yikes…

It’s also disgusting that a pp who was a teacher doesn’t see the value in education and the marks.

Seeing people don’t value education, why are British people so insistent to sending their kids to school? Just sack if all off. Why bother? What’s the point?

Let them fail their exams and get low marks. They don’t need education to read, write, communicate and study a niche.

They can do it without.

(Very clearly they can’t seeing as all the top professions have degree requirement as minimum lol)

Less competition for my kids when applying for jobs!!!!

I’ve pondered this as I’ve got older. I was a very high achiever at school and have a first class degree but now have a low-paid job with few prospects. Although I’m bright on paper, I’m not great socially, have little confidence in myself and am awkward in interviews. Many of the kids who dossed about at school/bullied me are now very successful in their careers and far richer than me. They have the charisma and social skills that make other people like them and want to employ them. It’s taken me a while to stop beating myself up for ‘failing’ to fulfil my potential - I’m fairly happy with my quiet life too and I’m aware of my limitations now - and like you I don’t put so much pressure on my kids to succeed academically.

You’re educated to a masters level but you can’t think critically, or read with any understanding of what people are trying to say. You’re a great example of why exam results and degrees are not necessarily good education.

You’re clearly just raging here, so I don’t know if there is any point in engaging with you, but there’s a lot of great reading and resources out there about challenging the status quo and how the current schooling system is actually robbing our children of a good education. Try reading a bit instead of getting angry on Mumsnet just because you lack the imagination to think that maybe things could be different and better than they currently are.

Like I said less competition for me and my kids 😜

I think having academic good grades give you some opportunities that you might not get otherwise. To study medicine, law, higher level qualifications etc, but that doesn't mean other routes don't exist. And it can be nice to get good grades at something, and its blimmen awful to fail (but good for your character).

But I agree academia isn't everything.

I think you've just proved her point, @anonymousxoxo ...

Massively depends what work you want to do. In law, academia, scientific research etc a top qualification means everything. In business, trades and talent-driven work, it means nothing. But the work ethic might help, and a love of learning is a life skill/pleasure in itself.

No my point was my aspirations for my children are to achieve high well paying careers which require degrees:

1. Doctor
2. Dentist
3. Optician
4. Pharmacist
5. Vet
6. Lawyer
7. Anything STEM

I have high expectations of my children and I know they can achieve the very best. I want them to own their own home, be independent, financially stable, drive their own cars and not be dependent on anyone = this is through education.

Tell me how many parents would be happy their children are being taught by uneducated teachers at nursery/primary/secondary school? There would be an outrage.

As pp (@Bikesandbees and @HarrietJet are opting out of higher education) this equals to less competition for me and my kids for entry.

So I say go for it, move out the way :)

Ps, trades work very hard on the body and weakens it as we get older then what?

At least with the occupations I mentioned there are other options that are less stringent on the body.

Also, I got a good degree from a good uni and didn't use it at all in my chosen profession. I even left my degree off my CV for years as people got put off, thinking I was snobbish or arrogant because it was Oxbridge. Then after ten years I had a change of heart and wanted an entirely new career. the degree meant I walked into a good job easily and then ten years later when I wanted another change, the degree was absolutely central to the shift. For years I thought it was a waste of time. Now my livelihood depends on it in a job i love more than either of the others.

Also no one, absolutely no one can take away the education my children will receive. It will benefit them and their future. They will be thanking me when they have high salaries, bodies are in tact and financially stable.

I want them to learn to drive, why? When they can get Ubers/Taxis/Bolts/Trains/Buses.

Because I want them to be independent.

The car could cost £500-1k, but the driving skills they will acquire is amazing and very well worth it.

They can drive themselves to work, go on road trips and don’t have to be dependent.

Learning to drive is education.

@anonymousxoxo _ I wouldn't call medicine, veterinary work or dentistry less taxing on the body than trades.

Glad I didn’t ask you then :)

Exactly. People are providing thoughtful points but @anonymousxoxo refuses to engage. Just keeps banging on about teachers and vets.
Feel a bit sorry for them actually maybe their kids disagree and they're trying to suppress the rebellion?

Also laughing at 'lawyer' (which is flooded these days, hard to make good money) and 'anything STEM' (when there are a lot of low paying STEM jobs). I hope somebody takes pity on the kids and gives them proper career advice.

As pp (@Bikesandbees and @HarrietJet are opting out of higher education) this equals to less competition for me and my kids for entry.

Opting out of higher education?? I hope your illustrious career is not dependent on reading comprehension 🤯

Exactly how ironic

You genuinely can’t read with any understanding of what is actually being said, can you? Genuinely starting to think you’re just trolling… you’re combative, you’re deliberately missing the point and misrepresenting what people said, creating straw man arguments and just generally being obtuse. Definitely troll behaviour.

l’ll bow out here. #don’tfeedthetrolls