To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

When did I ever say that?

However, plumbers are not as educated as someone with a PhD. That is obvious and the point I was making.

One could make the same arguments when comparing plumbers to labourers about the value of education in both how much you earn and the type of work you do to earn.

Honestly, people in this country have such massive chips on their shoulders about this.

Also.are you assuming people with a.trade are to.stupid to.have made provisions for old age ?

My cousin doesn't have a load of academic qualifications. He is an excelent landscape gardener and has invested in property. He is the most financially shrewd out of all of us.

Clearly academic achievement is not the only factor, one can get straights As and a first and the decide to be a teacher.

In some careers the first leg / legs on the ladder need solid academics, eg accountancy / law need straight As and gold degree and then have exams to pass.

It doesn't if you decide to be a part time teacher. That doesn't pay or require a prestigious degree. A decent degree does count in other sectors. It's not fair but that's the way it is. My husband makes a lot more than me with no degree. But he works in a lucrative business development role. I'll in civil service with fixed salary points, no bonus etc

Because trade affects the body and as we get older, our bodies get much weaker.

The comparison is to me sitting on a sofa working off a laptop with glasses on.

I also get to work from home and spend time with my kids. I don't have to work nights, super long days and have a really good work life balance.

In addition; pension, annual leave and sick pay.

There are more benefits to office working than a trade. This is why white/blue collar jobs exists, office jobs are seen as superior.

And who said stupid?

Why are you using unnecessary full stops?

My point was trades affects the body, as people get older body won't be able to work as efficiently and they will be replaced. Then, what?

People get much weaker as they're older.

type of education just shows your bitterness that you don't possess an education.

The biggest way women f*ck up their careers, salaries and pension is by working part time and being a SAHM.

I'm not the one who made the rules, blame the patriarchy.

However, by working part time/SAHM = low salary and 0 career progression coupled with poor pension which affects the gender pay gap.

^ education is used to open doors and get jobs, virtually nearly all jobs require a degree at minimum.

However, if you leave once entering or go part time then your education becomes old and obsolete.

Education AND experience go hand in hand.

I'm doing a MSc to improve my career progression and salary, after working full time and will still continue to work full time.

This is why I said it's better for a SAHM to be one without education, then retrain and get student finance funding so her degree will be fresh and new won't be seen as old. University is so expensive and then SFE don't fund second degrees.

That's not what the poster said?

virtually nearly all jobs require a degree at minimum

What absolute bollocks!

Only 2/3 of the UK workforce has a degree.

Looking back from grandma age I am sure that on my deathbed I will not be worrying about how many A levels I might have got or my degree and post grad stuff ... I will be treasuring the time I spent with loved friends and family and pursuing interests.
Huge chunks of our lives are wasted pursuing careers and money ... for some that is important and not a waste for others not.
Academic qualifications are a joy for some, and simply a ticket to earning-power for others.
There is something awry in the balance of life ... we pursue these qualifications and the best years of our lives are spent overwhelmed with career demands to the detriment of family and friends. Its a bit sad really.

I was talking about well paying jobs such as doctors, vets, dentists, engineering, stem and technology

I do have an education ,I trained as a nurse and have gcse,s and A levels and a nursing diploma what do.I have to be bitter about ?

But still by your fractions 66% nearly over half the population have degrees. That figure will only continue to grow.

Nursing in comparison to doctor is not well paid (I don’t make the bands). You should have trained for role that pay more.

And today people need degrees to be a nurse so that say everything.

As a home educating parent, I only work part-time, for myself, which I have done for the past 8 years, and the money I earn has increased in this time. Career wise I'm in a great space at the moment, earning decent money for my part-time hours and being able to choose who I work with. It's the happiest in my career I've ever been.

The question is: can you afford to pay mortgage and bills on a part time salary? If the answer is yes. Then you’re golden. If not, then you will struggle without your dh.

Agree that marriage and children are a difficulty for women. But allowing the upbringing of children to be considered practically worthless, working full time and farming out childcare to others is not the solution.

I am quite appalled that anyone should consider a woman who stays at home should be uneducated. Education is not only about getting a job but developing as a person, knowledge for its own sake is worthwhile. Also, one does not only get education by getting a degree, there are other means. All a bit classist round here, I think.

That’s a very easy thing for you to say from your very previliged position. How many times your salary did you have to borrow to buy your first home many decades ago? The world is a very different place now.

Again, I didn't make the rules. Please blame the patriarchy and workplaces.

Education is through mainly university hence why it used to reserved for the rich only.

I place a lot of emphasis on academic success and think it's important, personally.
There are of course many people who have done exceptionally well without academic success but I imagine quite a few of them come from money so can afford to take risks knowing that they have family money to fall back on. Why wouldn't you give yourself the best odds to do well financially, assuming that's what we are talking about. From my own experience, most of my circle, whether it's my childrens' parents, my own friends, husbands friends etc have all done well academically and are all in the top 5% of earners in the UK.

Well, my generation took other routes, mainly to get a trade or a profession e.g. chartered accountants, engineers etc., but I see what you mean in that it was the preserve of the rich until the nineteenth century and of the middle and upper classes mostly until after WWII. People who have not been to university are also educated, the Workers Education Association being one of the means to get an education, evening classes and also public libraries. Current philistinism - esp current government - sees anything that does not get a well-paying job as worthless, which was some of my point, for a civilization that thinks its history, literature, and culture is not worth studying is doomed. Evening classes are now purely vocational, whereas one used to be able to learn to watercolour, study astronomy, cookery, etc. - but no longer. The WEA seems to have disappeared and its flagship, Ruskin College, is now a university. Public libraries are underfunded and closing - my local council has spread the books formerly held in the Central Library around the city, meaning there is now no single point that anyone can go to for books which may not be in high demand but which people want, e.g. the play library. These places used to be sources of education and now are not. Which is not really germane to the OP's question, I suppose. Whether the rules are the patriarchy's is no reason to accept them - but being a second-wave feminist I well remember the contempt among some of my contempories for women who stayed at home and raised children. Not very feminist IMHO. Sorry for rant.

It is feminist to want women to be:

financially independent
educated (in India they don't like to educate women as an example)
have own bank accounts
can drive a car

The reality is higher education is seen to higher value hence the fees and high paying professions require a degree e.g. doctor, lawyer, dentist, vet, stem and tech.

Would you want your child to be educated by someone who didn't go to university?

Of course you have a point that job success isn't always defined by your academic record.

However, as long as young people are not overly stressing themselves out that their life will be ruined without certain grades (and I am aware this does happen, but is not the majority), there is more to academic success than just securing a job and I think its a bit narrow minded to only see it that way. I loved writing essays and learning and studying and academic success I believe has instilled in me (Won't be the same for everyone's personalities obviously!) a general curiosity but also sense of achievement that really built my confidence in general and has helped me to go on and have confidence that I've applied to completely unrelated things like pursuing hobbies and passions I might not have otherwise due to self doubt. Obviously it's not the answer for everyone, but academic success isn't often about the content of what you learn, but the discipline joy of study and sense of achievement at a young age that can be equally beneficial, even if it doesn't land you a fancy salary.

Yes, but my point was about window cleaning. Are there really many rich window cleaners? It's not like being a plumber or a farm contractor. And then you say your FIL made his money out of tax evasion, hardly a model to follow.

Well, 'partly' out of that, but remember that unlike PAYE you don't pay tax on your income, just profit on the business. It's easy to arrange it in such a way that you earn very little on paper and so pay very little tax. A lot of self-employed deadbeat dads do this to avoid paying maintenance.

I'm not sure why you're asking about the amount of 'rich' window cleaners. Of course there will be some that are obviously rich, like those with commercial contracts. Besides that, window cleaners don't usually just 'clean windows', here are some examples of the services they offer:
https://manchesterwindowcleanersltd.co.uk/
https://www.thoroughcleanservices.co.uk/window-cleaning/domestic/
I don't think you can necessary compare to a plumber or electrician as those are 'essentials'. More to painters, builders, decorators who tend to do quite well too.

However, as discussed in my final paragraph in previous post. The point here is not necessarily 'how many' are rich., It's the potential. After all, even when people go to university and get an office job, very few of them will ever be rich. If you're discussing earning a liveable income being self-employed gives you much more than being PAYE. Of course, that depends on tax regulations. Certainly window cleaners can make a good living.