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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think academic success truly does not matter

457 replies

Hotstuff18 · 29/08/2023 12:05

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

OP posts:
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saffy2 · 31/08/2023 18:40

Academic success opens doors to the next stage which can lead to the next stage etc. but apart from that, yeah it’s not the be all and end all at all. And many people do well (myself included) and then don’t use their degree for anything at all. My current career is completely unrelated to my degree and I don’t need any degree to do it. (I did an unrelated diploma to qualify for my current job). I find that’s quite common.

Naftytafy · 31/08/2023 18:47

The main reason I pushed my DC to go to university was based solely on my main takeaway from my degree:
It opens your mind to new things in a way that nothing else can

sabbii · 31/08/2023 19:22

First I would stop comparing with other people (grades, income etc). You have zero influence and vice versa on life choices or what opportunities. Stop with the regrets, if you want to chase the money sm sure you can find a way. You sound like you have a nice balance

MannekenP · 31/08/2023 20:20

MrsValentine24 · 31/08/2023 00:35

That’s a stereotype really…no work no pay only applies to the self-employed, and that includes anybody running a non trade related business. Everyone else in the trades gets sick pay, pension contributions and annual leave the same as any office worker. And I would say all work takes its toll on the body, it’s just something you have to put up with if you need to work for a living. It’s paper cuts, carpal tunnel or poor eyesight for people who type at a computer all day long and bashing your head on someone’s loft hatch or dropping a spanner on your (probably steel toe capped) foot if you’re a tradie.

Edited

Even when working for a company it's more common for tradies to be hired as 'subcontractors' rather than employees with full benefits. Those that are don't get paid that much. To make the real big money they tend to be self-employed and running their own business.
Also laughing at paper cuts.... is that the best you can come up with?
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/work/industry-incidence-rates/most-dangerous-industries/
Physical jobs are at the top of the list and it's no surprise.

At the end of the day, it's a trade-off (pardon the pun), isn't it? How much would you make there, vs another career? Why would someone who has no idea what they want to do and has never demonstrated any aptitude for being handy, go into the trades?

FWIW I do think that men for whom it would be a great option are already directed towards the trades. Not women, who are stuck in the low paid female dominated professions like care and nursery work.

SlippySarah · 31/08/2023 20:35

Academic study can be a goal and an achievement in itself. Education opens the mind and unlocks possibilities. Its not all about who earns the most money or that you've ended up in a call centre after getting 4 A levels. I think academic achievement has a value all of its own and if my children are inclined that way I'd love them to go to university and study a subject that interests them and fires them up. If their ultimate career path, or paths are different then so what, its not a waste of time.

minibreak39573 · 31/08/2023 20:37

I agree to an extent. Obviously there will a lot of jobs that require a certain level of education. I think for many though confidence and being well spoken is what has got them certain roles. This is something I was seriously lacking when i graduated.

Laterstarter · 31/08/2023 21:11

I can see both perspectives on this- I was the 7 A higher, 2 A advanced higher kid who got into the hardest to get into, most oversubscribed university course (at that time anyway)

But that particular career isn’t for the most part that well paid, in spite of all that (and the fairly horrendous hours😂) even with another three post grad qualifications.

and at times it used to do my head in that others I knew with poorer grades/degrees made a lot more money than me. But at the end of the day that was about the career path I’d chosen, which just happened to have high entry requirements, and was wholly my choice

Now though, I’ve made a lateral step and I make extremely good money, so again a decision I made- my ability to do that job is a result of the grades, the education and the degree.

so in summary, it’s all about what paths we choose- but good grades are never going to shut the door to things now are they?

Haugh · 31/08/2023 22:02

Of course academic success matters,
most without are scraping on minimum wages. Some of course are not and earn a decent salary. Please don’t think you’d be where you are without studying in your early years . Could you live on minimum wage instead of your present salary? Ok we do have Social Security£££

DoctorTeeCee · 31/08/2023 22:02

It purely depends on career choice. Becoming a neurosurgeon isn’t going to happen with one GCSE in Knitting…

ASDMumof2 · 31/08/2023 22:07

Most people I know through work are grads, many are post grads.

Their work success is not down to their exam success but business acumen and use of their knowledge.None could gain employment in my field without a bachelors degree, many jobs ask for a masters and a professional chartership.

I class myself lucky - my career has been great. I haven't yet retired but I love my field and earn well out of it.

Your field however is notoriously underpaid.

The moral is, if you want to earn money get into a field that pays well. If you want a career that's rewarding in ways other than £££ take your pick. There are loads of jobstgagnaje a difference but aren't remunerated how they probably should be.

Once you've chosen though, don't complain abouit others in tour field who are less well qualified. They're qualified enough to get a job!

Your academic achievements can be very be taken away. Be proud of what you achieved x

T1Dmama · 31/08/2023 22:15

I suppose it depends what you do it with that success…. I don’t think Barasters, lawyers, Doctors or vets etc would have got to where they have without academic success… However I also know people who did VERY well at school and moved onto college & Uni then never used their vast qualifications again .. I also know average achieving people (academically) who have now got their own very successful businesses.. so it’s all about what you want from life really.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 31/08/2023 22:31

Depends what career you want.
Just how poorly educated is acceptable to you?

Ohhoho · 31/08/2023 22:48

I knew I was clever at school but I never worked hard. I was wrong. I did well at work, going from science to newspapers to magazines to book publishing without a degree. However I felt I had missed out and did a degree after getting a couple more a levels after I had children. By then I was motivated and did well. I still wish I had worked harder at school though and it was partly because I wasn’t encouraged or expected to.
So I hope you do encourage your kids and tell them that working hard is very important because it is.
You should be proud of your hard working achievements. it’s too easy not to work hard and if they do they should be rewarded by your pride in them.

user1487768885 · 31/08/2023 22:49

Those can't do, teach. I'm sorry. Kind of true though. Most of us went to oxbridge or top RG unis. The only people I know that became teachers are the ones that failed to get or stay in their dream job.

xmaswiththeinlaws · 31/08/2023 22:59

I agree, I went to a school where academic excellence was drummed into us as essential to our future prospects, A levels and University were the only expected route for us. My friends, who went to less academic schools, seem to be financially more successful, despite lower grades. Many have jobs that are trades that adapted better to family life. Those I was at school with seemed to have given up their academic careers and gone for other, unrelated jobs or be working in lower paid jobs in order to fit around family life. Friends and family who left school at 16 seem to be far better off than those of us who went to university. I don't feel I can advocate encouraging my children to go to university straight from school, for the experience. Obviously if they have a specific career goal in mind I will support them, but in my experience, my peers who haven't been to university seem to be doing better than the ones who did and I won't be encouraging my kids to get heavily into debt without good reason.

Yourcatisnotsorry · 31/08/2023 23:28

For someone well educated, I’d hope that you’d consider the limitations of your sample size of two. Statistically higher exam scores and success correlates with higher earnings. Of course there are those who do well with no qualifications and phds on the dole.

anonymousxoxo · 01/09/2023 07:23

People are forgetting trades equal body work and body is badly affected. No sick pay, pension and no work done that day = no pay.

I can work from home 4 days a week, school hours and can do drop off and pick ups.

Also, in old age all I need is my laptop and glasses to work. I can go office 1 day.

The flexibility and work balance I have is fantastic. Coupled with full time wage and progression opportunities.

All due to education.

Why would I give that up to work in trades? They miss out time on their family…

What work will they do in old age?

TheCurtainQueen · 01/09/2023 07:28

anonymousxoxo · 01/09/2023 07:23

People are forgetting trades equal body work and body is badly affected. No sick pay, pension and no work done that day = no pay.

I can work from home 4 days a week, school hours and can do drop off and pick ups.

Also, in old age all I need is my laptop and glasses to work. I can go office 1 day.

The flexibility and work balance I have is fantastic. Coupled with full time wage and progression opportunities.

All due to education.

Why would I give that up to work in trades? They miss out time on their family…

What work will they do in old age?

You get a full time wage for working school hours? How have you wrangled that?

Jack80 · 01/09/2023 08:11

It depends what you want to do for example a doctor, a lawyer, a scientist etc you need the a qualifications. Our teens weren’t pushed one of them got mock grades in her GCSE’s because of Covid the other has just passed her GCSE’s recently.

Grammarnut · 01/09/2023 08:18

Education is not about the money or job you end up getting. Education and learning are goods in themselves. Knowledge for its own sake is something worth pursuing over and above any lifestyle it may bring you. Being good at something, which tends to translate into good grades, gives confidence and self-esteem, too. I followed a wayward academic career and my job (a teacher, and head of a very small department) never much reflected my academic success, but I am more interesting to myself, have a more interesting life and have a sense of the world around me and an ability to sift out rubbish that I would be less likely to have without the academics. One of my friends did little at university, except read the reading list (and presumably put in essays, I never heard of him writing one) and got a first. I don't resent that. Why should I? My lack of success in my career had more to do with being a wife and mother than what letters I could write after my name (and most people I know have no idea I have them).

anonymousxoxo · 01/09/2023 08:56

TheCurtainQueen · 01/09/2023 07:28

You get a full time wage for working school hours? How have you wrangled that?

I work in tech/stem. My hours are 8-4.

I take lunch 8:00-8:30 then 3:30-4:00.

My kids are at school from 8:15-3:30 so this works well for me.

I’d recommend every women to look into STEM/tech, flexibility is great.

In fact I have male colleagues who do the same as me!

If I do have to log in after 4, I do and it’s easy as I’m home and I just need laptop.

I’m home for 4 days a week, I have to go office 1 day a week very rarely 2 if important meetings then it’s ok. Balances out.

Lastchancechica · 01/09/2023 09:21

Grammarnut · 01/09/2023 08:18

Education is not about the money or job you end up getting. Education and learning are goods in themselves. Knowledge for its own sake is something worth pursuing over and above any lifestyle it may bring you. Being good at something, which tends to translate into good grades, gives confidence and self-esteem, too. I followed a wayward academic career and my job (a teacher, and head of a very small department) never much reflected my academic success, but I am more interesting to myself, have a more interesting life and have a sense of the world around me and an ability to sift out rubbish that I would be less likely to have without the academics. One of my friends did little at university, except read the reading list (and presumably put in essays, I never heard of him writing one) and got a first. I don't resent that. Why should I? My lack of success in my career had more to do with being a wife and mother than what letters I could write after my name (and most people I know have no idea I have them).

I completely agree with this. I am still studying now at fifty, mainly for my own benefit because it is enriching, exciting and brings much more to my life than money. Money to me just reflects how best you managed to work the system, knowledge, studying - enrichment should be continued for life if you wish to grow and develop fully.

wellstopdoingitthen · 01/09/2023 10:09

MrTiddlesTheCat · 29/08/2023 12:22

My husband is a nuclear chemist. I can't imagine he'd be much good at his job if he only had a woodwork GCSE.

😂 💥 😂

x2boys · 01/09/2023 10:31

anonymousxoxo · 01/09/2023 07:23

People are forgetting trades equal body work and body is badly affected. No sick pay, pension and no work done that day = no pay.

I can work from home 4 days a week, school hours and can do drop off and pick ups.

Also, in old age all I need is my laptop and glasses to work. I can go office 1 day.

The flexibility and work balance I have is fantastic. Coupled with full time wage and progression opportunities.

All due to education.

Why would I give that up to work in trades? They miss out time on their family…

What work will they do in old age?

You don't have too but somebody wealth a,trade probably wouldn't want to.do your job either and why wouldn't they be able to work when they get older ?

x2boys · 01/09/2023 10:35

anonymousxoxo · 01/09/2023 07:23

People are forgetting trades equal body work and body is badly affected. No sick pay, pension and no work done that day = no pay.

I can work from home 4 days a week, school hours and can do drop off and pick ups.

Also, in old age all I need is my laptop and glasses to work. I can go office 1 day.

The flexibility and work balance I have is fantastic. Coupled with full time wage and progression opportunities.

All due to education.

Why would I give that up to work in trades? They miss out time on their family…

What work will they do in old age?

Also.are you assuming people with a.trade are to.stupid to.have made provisions for old age ?
Do.you assume it's only people with your type of education who can plan ahead ?🙄🙄