To think academic success truly does not matter

[Hotstuff18]

Firstly, this isn’t sour grapes. I went to a very prestigious RG university and was always the annoying girl with my hand up at school (ah misspent youth 😂). However, in almost all the adults I know now their academic outcomes have had literally no bearing on their lives now in their late 30’s and early 40’s. In my own life, my A’s at A level count for absolutely nothing when my part time teacher salary is absolutely dwarfed by my non academic DH’s who spent most of his time at school messing around and smoking behind the bike sheds. At work, a lot of my colleagues didn’t do that well in their own exams and now do the exact same job as me. Many friends who work in trade jobs having left school at 16 earn very impressive salaries meanwhile others with top grades in their exams earn low money. One particular example that always sticks out to me is a lady who lives down the street, who’s also a teacher, absolutely bombed her exams as she spent the whole time partying (whilst I spent most of year 13 diligently writing up notes and doing practice essays) and yet we ended up living on the same street doing the exact same job. I’m not bitter about this at all, I absolutely love my life however, I do regret not just having more fun at school and not worrying about my grades because it really hasn’t paid off. Obviously, for certain jobs such as medicine too grades are needed but for the vast majority it truly doesn’t matter at all. I have definitely learned my lesson on it with my own DC and have never excessively pushed them and my main priority has always been their social progress/happiness at school rather than grades, which I think will honestly stand them in far better stead than getting all 9’s in their GCSE’s. Aibu?

Within our families and to less extend school peers having more education has generally led to better paid jobs and more opportunities and life choices. There are exceptions and area plan a huge role as well

However within family it's easier to gauge easy of passage education can give as I suppose you see the hard years and the huge amount of hours and sacrifices road blocks and the risks - while with more casual acquaintances you just see the success bit.

I've also met fair few people n 30/40 including my own Dad who found not having that degree closed all the doors in their industry - and then they were taking years out or doing OU round work and family which is much harder ( I did both).

It not everything though and there are other paths which sometimes look easier to outsiders than they actually are.

I've always viewed education the same as wealth, its benefit is on keeping options open. Good gcses allow the student to continue to a levels or start work. So on so on. Personally without education I would not have been able to follow my career path however now as a partner the skills i require are very different and far more generic than industry related.

Education doesn't necessarily bring wealth. For wealth some skills are required educated or not. However without education some options will be closed.

Window cleaning? Aren't they usually very modest one-man businesses?

DH used to work for a huge global company. The only Rolls-Royce he ever saw in the car park belonged to the guy who had the window cleaning contract for their site - a self-made man.

I disagree it depends on the profession. You are considering the value of education in terms if how much you go on to earn. That is part of it but higher education helps you think critically, analyse text (degree dependent), teaches you to research and go on to develop lots of other skills.

Yes you don't need the highest grades to be a teacher but your grades would have opened the doors to you in terms of other professional careers. To decide to be a teacher was down to you and if you enjoy it then it was the right choice for you. Having a degree can get you onto a degree programme and fast track you, also provides the softer skills employers are looking for. That's not to say joining the company at 16 you wouldn't get there but it may well take longer to be earning the same amount. As with everything, a bit of luck and how much drive you have are important factors too.

I entered a profession where high grades are required but I always had the end goal in mind and was clear about what I wanted to do.

This. also academic success doesn't rule out happiness. I am not sure what you mean by social progress? Socially you'd probably think I am a train wreck but professionally I have done more than ok and i am a happy person.

I agree, my parents are from India and they didn't have the same opportunities to first world education.

Some lucky ones get by with poor academics eg the annual post-A Level Jeremy Clarkson message. ‘Look at me, failed at school and now on a super yacht’.

But goodness why would you not want your child to have academics behind them. My kids got all A stars and are at Oxbridge/RG universities. With friends and pretty normal fulfilling lives. Who knows that the future holds for them. But with their academic achievements they have many more choices, whatever happens.

You want your child to have friends and be happy? So do I. But with decent qualifications too.

It would suit our current government very well if the general public started buying into the idea that education doesn’t matter, as long as you have a high salary.

Academic success is usually accompanied by a level of critical thinking ability that those less educated do not have.

Depends what you mean by 'count for nothing' I agree it does not always equate to financial success. But it can often improve quality of life on other ways.
I certainly won't be too pushy with my kids academically.
I was a 'gifted child' 15 A* at GCSE. 5 As at AS level... then whilst I was doing my A levels I had a complete breakdown and ended up leaving home and basically being a homeless drug addict for a while. But there were other home life factors to this not just being pushed academically.
My husband always coasted along at school and he's the one with the masters degree now and the career. But neither of us are massively financially successful.
I do think both our educations have helped us as people in the end though. I do value having a wide range of interests and as I get older all the things I've been taught, I feel they've enriched my life. I feel I have a level of resilience from it. And as for my husband his degrees have certainly helped him progress in his career but its not a career where he would ever be considered wealthy.. however it is something that engages him.
I'd be happy if my kids were very academic but I would not expect that to equal financial success, and I won't push them to be.

I really agree with the poster above. I’d like to think my academics have enriched my life. However, I got straight A’s at gcse and A levels plus a science degree and Masters from a Russell Group uni, but because I’ve been a stay at home mum for ten year, it’s literally impossible for me to get a job (no references, no experience etc etc). My husband on the other hand failed his GCSE’s but luckily for him was pretty good at sport so has managed a well paid career out of that. I’m very envious towards all those with ‘careers’. I so wish I had one! People say education keeps your options open, but I don’t feel like I have any options despite brilliant academics. I feel like I could be a real help to someone’s business but just can’t get anything…

People keep forgetting as they're naive on how hard it is to enter a career and strive in it.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but..

1. You stayed home for 10 years which means your 10 years behind of your peers experience wise.
2. Industries are very sexist towards women and most likely want younger employees in entry level roles.

In comparison to a woman who stayed in work would have had higher opportunities to progress (especially with women like you opting out of the workforce) e.g. less competition for her.
More flexibility and higher salary.

Part time is hard to come by aswell, my job literally cannot be done part time and my colleagues are 5 males on top of that.

People say education keeps your options open, but I don’t feel like I have any options despite brilliant academics. this is because you prioritised your husband job.

I always get slack for this but people who want to be SAHM are better of leaving education until they want a full time career because:

1. Uni is expensive
2. Your qualification will be fresh
3. Socialising with peers
4. Confidence
5. Connections
6. SFE won't fund second degree

It always pays for women to stay in full time work or even part time, otherwise they are well and truly fucked regardless of their education background unless they have connections.

Education is about more than earning lots of money. As a child from a very working class background my degrees opened the door to travel, professional jobs and a more interesting (to me!) life that would not have been remotely possible otherwise. DH is similar. I doubt it will have quite the same impact on our dc as their starting point and the world is very different several decades later, but we have absolutely prioritised their education. My father was made to leave school at 15 and work in manual jobs that he hated, but my oldest son went to Cambridge. I'm enormously proud of that, whatever he ends up doing or earning in later life.

You had choice and options. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur etc. You had options and chose that job.

@ErosandAgape of course not. But going to uni doesn't mean you'll have a better life or experience better things

Good grades at school give you options.
that’s all it is- it’s doors opened not doors closed. There are so many other factors that influence career prospects of course.
It also matters what you choose and how you maximise your own potential.
I had the worst A Levels of my friendship group / not for want of trying I worked very hard but I didn’t do well on the day. Those results are only a snapshot in time. I went to a less prestigious university to study the same course and I am a much higher earner at the moment than all my friends who did ‘academically ‘ better. I have been very savvy in my choices. This could change if I had a family or they changed careers for example. Life is a marathon !

I think it comes down to balance. Achieving good grades at school is beneficial because it teaches you how to learn and how to devote yourself to working hard, some important things (my career still references things I learned at school - however to be fair a lot I don’t use) and most importantly it leaves as many doors open as possible, and it is rewarding. However, it’s definitely not the be all and end all and unless your dream is to do medicine/pharmacy/actuarial science etc then perfect results aren’t necessary. Achieving a healthy work-life balance at school and beyond is so important. But working hard at work and good work experience is what gets you farthest.

I have mixed feelings about this. I was academically bright and so pushed down the academic route at school. I did Physics, Chemistry, Maths A-Level and for the two years was the one smoking and drinking behind the shed, out partying all the time and not applying myself. Scraped the grades to go on to a red brick uni to study Astrophysics where I behaved even worse, I even took one of my final exams drunk. Scraped a 3rd Class degree and went away feeling like somewhat of a failure. I went on to carve out a good career in a corporate job but despite the good pay and prospects I never really enjoyed it. Was happy to give it up to be a SAHM. Now I have no idea what I want to do with the rest of my life. I wish that I had worked harder at school as perhaps I would have had more choices available once I graduated, but on the other hand I wonder if I just didn’t enjoy my subjects that much and would have worked harder at something different, more creative for example. I think that the most important thing is to try and find subjects that you enjoy and a career you enjoy regardless of money, as that is what matters in the long run. But absolutely try to balance work and fun. Wish I had learnt that sooner!!

I agree entirely OP. It’s just an observation as you outline.

I too ‘did everything right’ and as I was supposed to and enjoyed learning etc but have a pretty average life in the public sector and no one ever has asked about my qualifications either! Could have got C or A* - no one cares/checks etc.

It’s not bitterness but more of an observation. Everyone I know who was not academic and had more of a relaxed approach/dare I say ‘dossed about’ at school are mostly more financially successful than me. As bought houses early and don’t have university debt and seem to live in huge properties. Mostly these people also from working class backgrounds too (which makes me very happy btw 😃) as I too am working class.

I also think education used to be seen as the last social enabler - but this is less so now. Particularly outside London. This is due to unfair wealth distribution and other factors but certainly when I was doing my GcSE and A levels in the mid 00s it was seen as ‘get A grades and illuminate yourself and go to university and be a big winner 🥇’

Obviously there are exceptions to this and it can depend on career path - but for most being academic doesn’t mean all that much anymore.

Hmm, i'm less sure.

I went to a v average suburban state school.

The students who got the highest a-level grades (especially those in STEM/or traditional subjects like history) are mostly in the better jobs.

Of course there are outliers. But on average, better academic results (particularly when paired with career choices) have paid dividends.

Op you have chosen part time teaching, so probably aren't utilising the full extent of your academic abilities.

Your choices are still going to drive outcomes, ultimately.

DH and I both did very well academically, chose high paid jobs and earn a lot.

You'd be surprised at how much a one-man band makes.
FIL was (well, still is, a few jobs here and there) a farm contractor. Mostly cash in hand. Made very little on paper, both DH and SIL got the full loan for university. DH mother never worked.
However they have a large house that they spent quite a bit on renovating...quite a few posh cars and £££ in the bank.

Considering that 40K on PAYE equates to a take home of about 31K, and 50K, a take home of 38K, the equivalent 'self-employed' salary adds up to a higher take home pay with a clever accountant.

OP, I'm like you. Worked really hard at school, great grades, went to Oxford, and have ended up working in the NHS in job that although I'd need a degree for, definitely not straight As and an Oxford degree. And not earning loads (about on par with a teacher). But I love my job, and the way I saw it, was that the good grades opened doors - you could do what you wanted with good grades, but you couldn't always do the job you might later want with lower grades. Having said that, I have definitely reflected that people with much lower qualifications are earning lots more than me, so to a large extent grades don't matter. It's just working out what's going to make you happy in life- I think if you're not able to get the grades, don't sweat it, you'll probably do fine anyway (and there are much more important personal characteristics and skills in the job seeking market), but if you were able to get them, and didn't cos of being too lazy/having too much fun, I think most people would regret not having pushed themselves, even if it didn't lead to them being better off later in life.

My GCSE’s were woeful. I’ve done well, however I regret not making more of school, and possibly Uni, as it would have boosted my earning potential ahead by 10 years.

But what about you?

What do you do?

Did your academic success (or not) affect you?

Why do we need to talk about husband's?

We love to talk down and devalue education in this country and I do think it certainly has a privilege element to it. Many of those telling our young people today that grades don't matter have had opportunities given to them via other routes.

I went to a bog standard comp in a post-industrial northern town in a very working class community. Those that did well at school (minority) got out and have decent careers, a smaller number got trades but most are stuck in poorly paid jobs in the local economy and or are unemployed.

Yet still there are many in my old community who like to talk down education because that is what they are told from the pages of the tabloid press by a bunch of public school Oxbridge graduates working to keep them in their place.

I have had lots of negative comments from people because I have a PhD (many are also sexist too - being an educated woman has its own extra issues as I'm sure many of you know). Even some folk I work with (usually people in operations) cannot understand that I can have a high level of education and also knowledge of how the real world actually operates. They assume that my PhD means I am a "boffin" divorced from reality, but more fool them if they underestimate me.

I agree, it’s not the be all and end all. It keeps options open and more avenues to pursue, but this doesn’t necessarily mean wealth.

Some of the wealthiest people I know, own their own businesses, be it plumbing, building, electrics. They don’t have degrees, but are skilled and very successful.

In life you are judged on your wealth, not your academic success, and they don’t always go hand in hand.