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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

…to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

448 replies

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 08:37

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But…

My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago.

The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be.
I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens.

I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year).

My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point.

I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances.

My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death!

Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby?

NC for obvious reasons.

OP posts:
Original poster
GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 11:57

I think I’m going to do as a couple of PPs have suggested, and sit down with DM and DSis to try to clear things up. If at the end of that discussion DM and DSis aren’t on board with a codicil in the will, I’ll just have to try to put it behind me.

OP posts:
CheeseCakeSunflowers · 29/08/2023 11:58

If your DM is unwilling to change her will then having a written loan agreement stating repayment is due at the time of your DM's death might be another way of dealing with this. If you google "loan agreement template" you will find some online sites that can draw this up very cheaply, some are free. If both your DM and Dsis signed the agreement then that would be the proof you need that this money is to come out of your sister's inheritance, just make sure you know where the signed document is, with the will would be a sensible place.
I would emphasis to your DM that you are doing this to protect your own DC's future needs.

YeahIsaidit · 29/08/2023 11:59

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 11:57

I think I’m going to do as a couple of PPs have suggested, and sit down with DM and DSis to try to clear things up. If at the end of that discussion DM and DSis aren’t on board with a codicil in the will, I’ll just have to try to put it behind me.

It's not your place to do this. You cannot and should not tell someone else what to do with their will. If anyone should sit down and talk about it it should be your mum and sister, IT IS NOT UP TO YOU!

GnomeDePlume · 29/08/2023 11:59

We are very open with our DCs (all adults) about our wills and I would hope they would tell us if they thought we were being unfair with them.

This comes from my DM being very secretive about the provisions in her will. My expectation is that her will contains knots and convolutions which will be near impossible to unpick. I try not to think about it as I know it just annoys me

YeahIsaidit · 29/08/2023 12:01

CheeseCakeSunflowers · 29/08/2023 11:58

If your DM is unwilling to change her will then having a written loan agreement stating repayment is due at the time of your DM's death might be another way of dealing with this. If you google "loan agreement template" you will find some online sites that can draw this up very cheaply, some are free. If both your DM and Dsis signed the agreement then that would be the proof you need that this money is to come out of your sister's inheritance, just make sure you know where the signed document is, with the will would be a sensible place.
I would emphasis to your DM that you are doing this to protect your own DC's future needs.

It isn't up to DM to support OPs child later in life and relying on an inheritance to provide that support is grim to say the least

Original poster
GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:01

@YeahIsaidit I’m sensing that your family dynamic is very different from mine. In our family, we discuss things, and my DM has told me repeatedly she wants to be fair to me and not go behind my back in what she gives DSis.

OP posts:
DameCurlyBassey · 29/08/2023 12:01

When I made my will I was advised not to tell the beneficiaries what was in it.

My mum gave my sister monetary gifts before she died. She didn't give them to me because I was earning a good salary. Those gifts didn't even cross my mind when we dealt with mum's estate. Perhaps I am stupid, but it really didn't bother me. I thought that was between mum and my sister. A person may have potential but if they are struggling in the moment it's OK for a parent to help them out, isn't it? That's between mum and sis, surely.

I can't quite see the logic that those gifts have to be reflected in the will. If you had lost out financially - because you had to give money to mum, for example, then that would make more sense to me.

I can't see the problem, but I know very little about these things so I am willing to be enlightened as I read through the thread.

user1471538283 · 29/08/2023 12:02

Yes do do this! My cousin had a large sum of my DGM that was supposed to be instead of the amount she put aside in her will for him specifically. But this was not changed and instead he ended up with the amount again. And he challenged the rest of the will so we had to unpick that.

I would ask your DM to just change it.

WomblingTree86 · 29/08/2023 12:03

I think it's fine to take into account the hefty sum she has recently given your Dsis in the Will and she doesn't need to discuss or upset your sister in order to do that as your sister suggested it. I'm not sure about the loan though. Hopefully your mother will take it into account next time you would like to borrow money though….

DameCurlyBassey · 29/08/2023 12:03

ihadamarveloustime · 29/08/2023 10:25

Well, if something isn't put into writing, I guarantee you your sister will 'forget' that any such loan/advance took place and expect 50% of what's left when your mum passes, OP.

That is the harsh cold reality of most people.

Is it a loan, though? The way I read it it sounds like a gift, but OP thinks of it as a kind of loan.

ConsuelaHammock · 29/08/2023 12:04

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 09:07

There’s also the possibility that there won’t be anything to inherit, if it all goes on care costs. In which case, so be it.

Speak to a solicitor about your mum gifting you both some of her estate. You need to do it 7 years before she dies to reduce Inheritance tax.

Original poster
GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:04

@DameCurlyBassey DM has given my DSis loads of other financial support, including paying a monthly sum for something related to her work. I’m not bothered about these.

OP posts:
Original poster
GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:05

@DameCurlyBassey It was definitely agreed between DM and DSis as an advance on her inheritance, not a gift.

OP posts:
Cosyblankets · 29/08/2023 12:06

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 09:24

@Whatswhatwhichiswhich The only reason I’m “expecting” an inheritance is because DM brought it up!

In your case i would have said look mum it's your money it's up to you what you do with it.

I don't really think people need to know the contents of a will until that person dies.

WomblingTree86 · 29/08/2023 12:06

CheeseCakeSunflowers · 29/08/2023 11:58

If your DM is unwilling to change her will then having a written loan agreement stating repayment is due at the time of your DM's death might be another way of dealing with this. If you google "loan agreement template" you will find some online sites that can draw this up very cheaply, some are free. If both your DM and Dsis signed the agreement then that would be the proof you need that this money is to come out of your sister's inheritance, just make sure you know where the signed document is, with the will would be a sensible place.
I would emphasis to your DM that you are doing this to protect your own DC's future needs.

It's really not up to OP to get involved with a loan her DM made to her sister!!!

YeahIsaidit · 29/08/2023 12:06

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:01

@YeahIsaidit I’m sensing that your family dynamic is very different from mine. In our family, we discuss things, and my DM has told me repeatedly she wants to be fair to me and not go behind my back in what she gives DSis.

If she's already told you that she's loaned/given DSis money, that should be the end of it. What she does with HER MONEY is up to her, nobody else.

I know nothing of my parents' finances, it isn't any of my business. I know they have wills and funeral provision sorted and that's it and I only know this much because they asked me and my siblings who'd want to be an executor when the time comes.

We discuss things too but no way in hell would I be telling them how their wills should be worded or what add ons should be included in case one of my siblings gets more or whatever is just disgusting and greedy

WomblingTree86 · 29/08/2023 12:08

ConsuelaHammock · 29/08/2023 12:04

Speak to a solicitor about your mum gifting you both some of her estate. You need to do it 7 years before she dies to reduce Inheritance tax.

Show quote history

It's not OP's place to speak to a solicitor about her mothers will!

Original poster
GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:08

@YeahIsaidit Again, the ONLY reason I know about all this is because my DM had been telling me about it from the start. My DF died recently and I had no idea and never asked about what was in his will.

OP posts:
DameCurlyBassey · 29/08/2023 12:09

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:05

@DameCurlyBassey It was definitely agreed between DM and DSis as an advance on her inheritance, not a gift.

Ah, your concern makes sense.

I would definitely advise mum to get that written into the will and to go through the loan formalities that others have advised. Then you can forget about it and get on with enjoying the lives you all have left to you. And cherish your lovely mum.

SafferUpNorth · 29/08/2023 12:10

The huge immediate problem here is that your Dsis is financially abusing your mum. From what you describe she's not a single mum living on the breadline with three kids, but abusing your mother's generosity to support a certain lifestyle for herself and her husband. That is the immediate red flag here. Any money your mum hands over should be noted down as a loan.

GardeningIdiot · 29/08/2023 12:10

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Gymrabbit · 29/08/2023 12:10

YeahIsaidit

Pleas explain how it is ‘disgusting and greedy’ for the OP to think she and her disabled child should get as much money from her parent as her high earning sister and brother in law who like to spunk their money on expensive holidays?

YeahIsaidit · 29/08/2023 12:10

GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:08

@YeahIsaidit Again, the ONLY reason I know about all this is because my DM had been telling me about it from the start. My DF died recently and I had no idea and never asked about what was in his will.

Right she's told you what she wants to tell you, be happy with that and don't worry about sitting her down to make sure it's formalised. It's her responsibility IF SHE WANTS TO DO THAT. Asking her to do anything with her will, isn't at all reasonable

Original poster
GoodWillDrafting · 29/08/2023 12:11

@GardeningIdiot That’s horribly unfair. I’m sorry.

OP posts:
DameCurlyBassey · 29/08/2023 12:12

I have to say however that I couldn't do this. I couldn't discuss the contents of my mum's will with her. Her will contains her last wishes. That is private, surely.