…to want things formalised in DM’s will, or am I being grabby?

[GoodWillDrafting]

We’re a small, close family and we all get on very well, so the last thing I want is to create bad feeling. But…

My DM, a widow, has helped my DSis out financially a fair bit, whereas I’ve never wanted or needed any help since I stopped being a student over three decades ago.

The most recent bail-out involved a pretty hefty sum, which my DSis suggested be deducted from the amount she inherits from our mum’s estate, whenever that might be.
I have no problem with this, but I do want it to be formalised somehow, as I know how easily these things get forgotten/the details blur, and my mum won’t be around to make sure it happens.

I’ve also suggested that the previous lump sum my mum “lent” my DSis should be included (from earlier this year).

My own circumstances are that I’m fine for money now, but have a disabled child who’s likely to need more, rather than less care as she gets older, and I can see myself being unable to work at some point.

I mentioned the issue (again) to my mum yesterday, and she looked a bit panicky and said she didn’t want to upset my DSis or let her know we’d been talking about her finances.

My attitude is that all this stuff should be out in the open as it concerns us all, and if anyone’s going to be potentially pissed off, it’s me. I’d be happy for the three of us to sit down and discuss it, even though I find talking about money really awkward, especially as none of us enjoys talking about profiting from DM’s death!

Am I being unreasonable to want the money DM has lent/advanced DSis reflected in her will? Or am I being grabby?

NC for obvious reasons.

Soooooo

if this is something she wants to do - she will.

if this is not something she wants to do - she won’t

Just to add I only said “grabby” as that was the word you used. There is nothing in your posts that make you seem overly grabby. I just think the earlier sum sounds more like a gift and you would be wrong to push for that to be included.

The DM is a grown assed woman fully capable.

If she feels awkward about this and doesn’t want it reflected in her will - then that is her prerogative

@LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood It definitely wasn’t supposed to be a gift. It’s just turned into one because DM never has any serious expectation of being repaid.

I've been in a very similar position. 'Of course' things would be settled fairly if/when the time comes. Sibling not at all grabby, just a bit scatty and in need now but would never like things to be unfair etc. Eventually, after a lot of convincing, I was persuaded by others outside of the family to be a bit more sensible and to get things formalised because my parents would never get round to getting it sorted. This involved asking for a share of a mortgage-free property to be gifted to me. Oh yeah of course no problem... when I actually instructed a solicitor and got the paperwork drawn up for signing sibling hit the roof. Could not believe I was following through with the formalising bit... but equally had to sign because could not actually say to our parents that they never really thought they'd have to pay it back and that it would all just get lost with time as has happened with so many gifts in the past that parents had forgotten about and I was not fussed about forcing the fairness issue. All fine now on the surface and our parents are oblivious but our sibling relationship has not been the same since because the wild reaction to the paperwork exposed the uncomfortable reality and we both know it.

Again, her prerogative

If there is a problem with adding a codicil to the will then a discussion needs to be had. The money may be taken up in care fees before being divided up not leaving enough to cover sisters loan. Not very fair if DM if she is of sound mind.
It could also be seen as elder abuse one child turning to parent for money.
All very good while things are tickety boo but things can change in a flash.

I'm in the same boat with my sister - althoughmy parents want this to be reflected in the will and my stepdad has made sure it is, and that what she's had (ie absolutely LOADS) will be deducted from any inheritance. I've had nothing. However, if my stepdad dies first, I expect my sister will end up spending all mum's money and will persuade her to change the will in her favour. I also don't know how much there will be left after care homes etc anyway.

Long story short - I just don't think you can rely on inheritances anyway. You might get something, you might not.

Really interesting the different views of mothers and children. I dont see OP as being grabby or suggesting her mum cant spend her money as she wishes..she's asking for spend to be equitable (different from equal) and if not sorted in life..to be taken account of, post death. You consider you are already treating your children fairly/equally/equitably, so good for you(though i wonder if your kids feel the same?!)

I've been thinking about this thread and I'm wondering if your mum is almost asking you to help her get things straight.
She's brought it up for a reason.

'So mum, you mentioned you were keen to make sure everything was fair between dsis and I re the gifts and loans you've given her.
If this is something that's important to you we're probably going to need to sit down and document everything because actually this isn't something I'd want to deal later when for the sake of a quick codicil should all be sorted now - so shall I set up a time with dsis when we can all sit down for an hour and just get it done? I don't want this preying on your mind and causing you worry?'

This really resonated with me - exactly what's going on with my own family.

Good insight.

At least you know about the money, Op - I didn’t! My DB had many thousands from mum, known by everyone but me, until she blurted it out when ill. My cousins felt awful that they had been sworn to secrecy, but didn’t dare tell me.

My DB was livid that I found out, wrote her the most evil letter you could imagine (she made my cousin read it), amongst other things saying that he would make sure that she changed her will.

She was at this point, terminally ill, so did give me some money before she died a year later, which he was also livid about.

As we walked into the solicitors the day after her funeral, he said “I bet you can’t wait to see if the Will has been changed!”. It hadn’t, but I am sure that was partly because he knew he would be completely ostracised in the family.

We are virtually NC now, not all to do with the money, he always was an evil tw*t, but the money situation certainly made our relationship worse.

You are not being grabby Op, yes your mum can give money to who she wants, but I am sure there is also a feeling of more going to the favourite/golden child - certainly was in my case. He was definitely the favourite. Could she give you a similar amount now for you to invest for your daughter?

The will from your mum’s perspective is about living her children equally, and wanting the last years of her life to be enjoyable ones not marred by money talk.

The will from your and your sister’s perspective is about money and nothing else.

Both you and your sister are entirely in the wrong. Stand on your own two feet. You’re both expecting your mum - now and down the line - to help support you financially. That’s not her job. You’re adults. Take responsibility for yourselves.

It’s this simple. There’s no pussyfooting around feelings or whatever. Leave your mother be, let her leave it fudged and confused. It’s her money, that’s her right. Grow up and act like the adults you are. Do that and none of this would be an issue and you wouldn’t fear complications after your mum dies.

Well the OP is leaving money in such a way that her disabled child will still get their benefits so I suppose she would be quite happy for all of us to be paying for her mum's care as well. Plenty of people would be like that.

My take on it is that DM is essentially wanting forgiveness for not actually sorting this. She wants to be seen as having been fair so she is telling @GoodWillDrafting now in the expectation that OP would just accept the situation. OP would say 'that's fine Mum, not a problem'. DM could then sit back and congratulate herself on not having to deal with any unpleasantness or have difficult conversations with DSis.

Agree with everything that @BackToOklahoma has posted - I think in our case I wasn’t told because they knew I wouldn’t stay quiet and accept the unfairness, I would have spoken out and did when I found out.

Some lawyers will agree to see your Mum at her house to get the will drawn up. Ask your Mum to let you arrange this. Your sister doesn't have to be involved. I suspect that your Mum is an eternal optomist thinking your sister will pay her back and if not will let you have more from the estate to equalise things. I don't think that'll happen. It's pretty nasty what happens after a death when money is involved. People convince themselves that they are justified in not paying back loans (they'll say to themselves and others that it was a gift) etc. It's a lot easier handling an estate if it's all down in a will. You may also want to think about Power of Attorney (lawyer can explain this too).

OPs brought it up more than once, she refers to "again" in her first post. If this was mother's point in telling her then surely she'd have taken the opportunity to sort it.

Oh do fuck off, @Iwasafool. I have no time for people with assets who protect them so they can pass them down intact to the next generation while their care is being funded by the state.

A Disabled Children’s Trust is a completely different thing and only kicks in once the parents are dead. It’s a recognised, legal way of ensuring a person without capacity is cared for once their main carers aren’t around.

All of this is making me think that leaving inheritances beyond sentimental, token items should be banned. It's all very ugly

yanbu, I'm in the position of your DSis, have had a few gifts from the bank of mum over the years, and my DBro hasnt needed equivalent. I'd be happy for this to be compensated for in her will. As it is I'm not sure I could remember the exact cumulative total... it would be easy for your DSis to forget the total unless it is formalised in writing in the will.

It's all very ugly - so mind your own business then. This does not affect you in the least so if you find it all so distasteful, look away.

Like mine. All ‘loans’ are forgiven at my passing and it’s all split equally.

whilst I live it’s MY money and if I’m asked and can do it I help. I expect my kids to understand that.

@Rachie1973 Interesting to hear the parent’s perspective. So, if one of your children asked you for a five-figure sum, would you feel any obligation to do the same for your other children, or would you just expect them to roll with it? And if the latter, would you tell them?

The OP should mind her business. DMs money, where it goes and how it's spent has nothing to do with her yet somehow the majority think she'd be entirely justified in insisting DM makes ammendments to her will to make sure she gets what she feel she's owed... Disgusting