To think my friend was not BU in this cafe situation?

[TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress]

My friend runs a small independent cafe that is dog friendly but the dogs have to be outdoors. Over the weekend, a family of six people came in with 2 dogs and were directed outside. The tables outside are picnic benches that seat 10, inside the tables seat six (they’re all the same size). The family went outside and took 2 picnic benches. Which annoyed my friend as that’s depriving potential customers of a bench but she let it go and said nothing.

She noticed one of the children, a boy aged about 8, having a tantrum outside because he doesn’t like eating outdoors and wants to eat indoors. Next thing she knew, his mum had brought him inside and sat him at the last available table (with an iPad blasting). She asked my friend if his order could come to that table as he doesn’t like eating outside so she said he could come in and eat alone.

My friend said she couldn’t allow this, because they don’t allow children to eat and drink unsupervised for health and safety reasons (they’d also ordered the child a hot drink). The outside area is down a large set of steps so they couldn’t have seen him from the garden. The mum said he has ADHD and doesn’t like to eat outside. My friend - who also has a DS with ADHD BTW - said sorry no we can’t take the risk of him eating alone. What she didn’t say but wanted to was ‘You’d also be taking up three tables when you should only be taking up one and I shouldn’t have to turn customers away because of this’.

Anyway she dug her heels in and the mum gave in and went back outside, the 8yo had a (small) tantrum outside and played his iPad full blast for the duration of their meal (he was asked by another waitress to turn it down which he did a fraction).

When the family paid the mum said she would be posting reviews online to say that the cafe owner is ableist and wouldn’t accommodate the needs of a disabled child. My friend said nothing, and nothing has appeared as of yet online, but she’s gutted about this accusation especially with her DS having ADHD. She said she’d never let her ADHD DS eat alone because actually the risk of him being hurt would increase greatly.

AIBU to think it’s not about ableism but about health and safety? I feel really bad for her!

Please show me a link to this legal definition then.

I'll wait here with my spaniel...

So what - that’s still being a customer and using the service

But you can’t get hotel rooms outside - so it wouldn’t be dog friendly if they weren’t allowed inside because there’s nowhere else to go 😂

Cafes that allow dogs outdoors can still be used as cafes. The comparison is slightly embarrrassing

@SoupDragon ill wait for a legal definition that dates dog-friendly means dogs can go everywhere in a vicinity. I’ll wait with you.

Spoiler alert: there won’t be one as I’m pretty sure dogs aren’t protected by law to be in private businesses. Or anywhere, really.

You are basically arguing that if you were to turn up at a pet/dog friendly hotel and they said the dog had to stay outside that that would be acceptable.

are dogs allowed everywhere in this dog friendly hotel or are they only allowed in specific dog friendly areas? The random hotels I looked at specify "designated areas". Some even discriminate on the basis of size so surely this means they aren't dog friendly as not all dogs are welcome - that's not very friendly. Or could it be that there is no legal definition of "dog friendly" and that it usually means "dogs are allowed in certain areas"...?

@Smilencuddlesthenstab this hotel allows dogs in lodges but they can’t access the hotel bedrooms, restaurant & spa.

Im assuming you don’t consider this a dog friendly country park? Given Fido can’t have a little relax in the jacuzzi or eat with his family in the restaurant ? https://www.chevinhotel.co.uk/home/hotel-information/

Technically this is a dogs outside only hotel 😂

I actually just Google to see if I could find any hotels where dogs were allowed in the pool. I couldn’t but we stayed at the Dilly a few years ago (fab hotel in London), the Dilly advertises itself as pet friendly but apparently it’s not Check out this review of The Dilly on Tripadvisor: https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g186338-d193046-r711474903-The_Dilly-London_England.html because their barking sausage dog couldn’t come in the restaurant with them.

It makes me think if the Dilly proudly advertises itself as dog friendly, but it means ‘we allow dogs in certain areas only’ (like my friends cafe) then is ANY venue or hotel truly dog friendly?! Find me a hotel where your dog can go in the restaurant, pool, golf course, spa area.

So I think it’s fair to say ‘dog friendly’ does not mean ‘dogs can access every inch of this building that humans can’.

And I was accused of being David Brent. 😂

Of course it is dog friendly as the dogs can go in the lodges.

I rest my case and am signing out. I suggest you do the same.

Semantics. Not worth my time

The whole point is can the owners go inside. The answer to your examples is yes. Not everywhere but yes.

Your friends cafe doesn’t allow them inside anywhere

Yeah, you know you're talking nonsense.

You're a troll

Since the dictionary definition has been brought it then we will refer to that.

It does not specifically WHERE on the property has to be suitable, just that it is suitable

Outdoors is suitable thus it would count

There's not a legal definition which can be brought in so using the dictionary one provided... it fits.

"Oh no you've proved me wrong so I'm going to act like I'm being the bigger person as I slink away"

Basically.

@Smilencuddlesthenstab

But they can’t use all the facilities and go where their humans go. Humans can’t even go for breakfast, they have to leave the dogs at home.

So by your logic - let’s remind ourselves, aYOU think ‘ dog friendly’ can only be applied to ‘places where you can STAY with your pet’ - this isn’t a dog friendly hotel? Because you can’t stay with your pet, unless you just stay in the lodge the whole entire time?

Yes, 19 pages of semantics!

Anyway, owners can go inside my friend’s cafe just not with the dogs. So how is it not dog friendly? If your definition is now “Dogs can go in some places and humans can go everywhere” then her place is very dog friendly indeed

Slay Queen! You definitely win your own thread! I salute you!

😂

With the dogs!! My sentence meant the owners can go inside with the dogs!! I assumed after all this time that would have been clear to you.

im not slinking away quietly, I’m walking away because I’m dealing with idiots who are now googling whether dogs can go into hotel pools

But…owners in that hotel CAN’T go inside most places with dogs.

So how is that dog friendly?!

Also if a dog can’t go in a pool area then it’s not a dog friendly hotel surely?

I'm on Team Friend here.

It's not ok to basically require staff of a cafe to supervise a child left on his own.

😂😂😂😂 Ok you got me. You’ve been pranking me all this time! Good one. 😂😂😂

I think she was right to say the kid should have eaten outside and they so sound like annoying customers - don't think it's ableist in fact my DS also has adhd and I wouldn't have mentioned it for the reason of bypassing this.

However I do think if she says "dog friendly" peolme will expect the dogs to be inside and I'd change to to dogs welcome in outside seating area.

Ah I see this dog friendly debate has reached batshit levels there are loads of cafes in here that let them sit inside and that's the assumption I'd have made.

I do not have a dog.

Mumsnet at its finest 19 pages of arguing about the meaning of dog friendly ffs