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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think my friend was not BU in this cafe situation?

476 replies

TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 28/08/2023 14:16

My friend runs a small independent cafe that is dog friendly but the dogs have to be outdoors. Over the weekend, a family of six people came in with 2 dogs and were directed outside. The tables outside are picnic benches that seat 10, inside the tables seat six (they’re all the same size). The family went outside and took 2 picnic benches. Which annoyed my friend as that’s depriving potential customers of a bench but she let it go and said nothing.

She noticed one of the children, a boy aged about 8, having a tantrum outside because he doesn’t like eating outdoors and wants to eat indoors. Next thing she knew, his mum had brought him inside and sat him at the last available table (with an iPad blasting). She asked my friend if his order could come to that table as he doesn’t like eating outside so she said he could come in and eat alone.

My friend said she couldn’t allow this, because they don’t allow children to eat and drink unsupervised for health and safety reasons (they’d also ordered the child a hot drink). The outside area is down a large set of steps so they couldn’t have seen him from the garden. The mum said he has ADHD and doesn’t like to eat outside. My friend - who also has a DS with ADHD BTW - said sorry no we can’t take the risk of him eating alone. What she didn’t say but wanted to was ‘You’d also be taking up three tables when you should only be taking up one and I shouldn’t have to turn customers away because of this’.

Anyway she dug her heels in and the mum gave in and went back outside, the 8yo had a (small) tantrum outside and played his iPad full blast for the duration of their meal (he was asked by another waitress to turn it down which he did a fraction).

When the family paid the mum said she would be posting reviews online to say that the cafe owner is ableist and wouldn’t accommodate the needs of a disabled child. My friend said nothing, and nothing has appeared as of yet online, but she’s gutted about this accusation especially with her DS having ADHD. She said she’d never let her ADHD DS eat alone because actually the risk of him being hurt would increase greatly.

AIBU to think it’s not about ableism but about health and safety? I feel really bad for her!

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:03

JenWillsiam · 28/08/2023 20:58

I did. But I’ve also seen you use this diagnosis as justification for why it was definitely the right course of action. That is ableism.

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It’s ableist to say that children with ADHD can pose a danger to themselves? I don’t think so. That’s just stating fact. Do you think it’s OK to leave children alone who have a disorder that means their perception of safety is skewed?

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:04

Aranas · 28/08/2023 21:24

I can see the huge backtrack where the owner OP changed the definition more than once. Nothing wrong with clarifying it in a review. I'm not a dog owner, but would like to know in advance if I could take a dog inside or not.

Can you point out when I backtracked please? IE when I said the cafe is advertised as dog friendly then changed my mind?

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:07

Stillcantbebothered · 29/08/2023 02:27

You’ve really spent 4 pages responding on this topic? Are you so invested in this topic that this is now your sole focus and priority?

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Don’t worry It was a joke

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:10

Smilencuddlesthenstab · 29/08/2023 12:17

True. They don’t have to. You’ve missed the point. If a café advertises dog friendly it is expected to allow dogs inside.
This thread, which was not initially about dogs, is going to go around in circles by those who have dogs that get it and those that don’t have dogs, and therefore seem unable to think beyond their scope, that don’t get it.

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The cafe isn’t advertised as dog friendly.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned that before 😂

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:12

Rollawaythestone · 29/08/2023 12:58

Am I missing something? Where does it say that he would have taken the only table left inside? Anyway, it doesn't make any difference to the fact that the family behaved very badly. But, if your friend had not advertised her establishment as dog friendly when, truthfully, it isn't, I don't think the whole situation would have occurred. They would just have chosen to go elsewhere to begin with. For your (and her) future reference, the phrase "dog friendly" these days means that dogs are welcome inside the premises. Perhaps "dog tolerant" should become a recognised phrase also, so that people like your friend who only tolerate dogs outside, have their boundaries recognised too.

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@Rollawaythestone it isn’t advertised as dog friendly

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:16

SlippySarah · 29/08/2023 16:31

It's not disgusting to prefer to eat your food without slobber, fleas, barking and dog hair in your immediate environment.

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I agree with this.

I avoid dog friendly/tolerant cafes at all costs - I’ll go in my friends (I’m really not the cafe owner BTW!) because A. It’s supporting her B. The food is amazing and C. I can sit inside

living here is a bit like a nightmare, it’s hard to find anywhere dog unfriendly and call me old fashioned but I don’t like going out for food and having a dog come over to sniff my crotch, eat my food or bark and set of a cacophony of yapping all round. Or worse - dog hairs floating about in the air 🤢

Its a good job I DON’T own a cafe I’d be shit at it 🤣

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:18

Somewhere is "friendly" if it welcomes that category of visitor. It does not mean that they have to be allowed in all areas.

This is why I’d still call the cafe dog friendly. To clarify: it is not advertised this way! That’s just my opinion

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:21

anon666 · 29/08/2023 20:11

ADHD isn't a particularly disabling condition compared to others, so I'd say that the mum of that child is fundamentally wrong to claim that.

Neurodiversity is not the same as disability - for example it's not a qualifying condition for a disabled badge.

I'm all for levelling up but if everyone demands special treatment for every quirk, it means there is resentment against special accommodations for genuinely disabled people.

Hmmmm
ADHD is not a quirk. A quirk is a personality traitor. ADHD is a disorder. FGS

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:25

Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 30/08/2023 07:24

@TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress

I think both parties ABU because people can behave a bit unreasonably when they’re stressed and frustrated.

Could your ‘friend’ maybe look at it from the perspective of a potentially stressed parent. Spending the day wrangling kids and dogs, everyone’s hungry and cranky, you finally find a dog friendly tolerant place to eat with space to accommodate you all, not easy in a busy tourist town during the school holidays, and then your ND child starts to protest about eating outside so you find them a spot and hope for the best only to be told they can’t sit alone? Who do you then direct your frustration at? The cafe owner who’s just told you this! Of course it’s not ideal or appropriate to leave an 8 year old alone. Of course I can’t know how much of this is true but as a parent with a dog and a ND child days out/holidays aren’t always plain sailing or as relaxing as you’d like them to be so we can take an educated guess that this wasn’t a standalone incident in an otherwise perfect day for this parent.

Your friend won’t have seen the rest of their day in the same way this parent is unlikely to be thinking about how many tables the family have taken up and what the implications are for the business owner. Empathy and compassion don’t necessarily mean ‘giving in’ or pandering to the customer but it can mean expressing understand of someone’s predicament, at least pretending to take an interest, and helping to come up with a solution.

I guess if it’s in a tourist town your friend is less reliant on repeat custom so their relationship with clients is less important but imagine if they manage to get a great reputation on Trip Advisor for being inclusive, understanding and dog, family and disability tolerant friendly?

With the greatest of respect - the kind of day this family has isn’t my friend’s problem. The welfare of her customers is. My son (who hasn’t been diagnosed yet but has every single ADHD marker) isn’t anyone’s else’s problem when I take him places and his symptoms are intense. I’d never dream of letting him just climb about everywhere or bother other people and say nothing to him, and go “Well I know it’s ruining the experience of everyone in this cafe but it’s been a hard day for us”. Mostly Because I’m not a twat

OP posts:
Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 30/08/2023 10:27

@TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress you’ve entirely missed the point I was making

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 30/08/2023 10:27

Neurodiversity is not the same as disability - for example it's not a qualifying condition for a disabled badge

Being able to get a blue badge is not the way to assess a disability

Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:30

Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 30/08/2023 10:27

@TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress you’ve entirely missed the point I was making

Well what was your point? As it seemed your point was saying my friend should have seen it from the customer’s POV of having a stressful day? And she was unreasonable because she didn’t pretend to deeply care about their day

OP posts:
Elfandwellbeing · 30/08/2023 10:30

this demonstrates to me why dog owners are so entitled…. Poster asks if a situation concerning people, human, children, was UR and people are jumping up and down about poor doggies and how them being outside a cafe is not actually dog friendly.

Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:31

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 30/08/2023 10:27

Neurodiversity is not the same as disability - for example it's not a qualifying condition for a disabled badge

Being able to get a blue badge is not the way to assess a disability

This! I don’t think people realise how hard it actually is to get a blue badge

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 30/08/2023 10:43

There's something really weird that's been going in society over the last few years where a whole bunch of people are being expected to comply with one person's wants, whether the whole bunch of people consent or not.

BadNomad · 30/08/2023 10:44

@Elfandwellbeing
Eh? No one is thinking "aww poor doggies". Dog owners don't think dogs shouldn't be kept outside of cafés. Dog owners are fine with that if they know that's the case. I don't see where you are seeing entitlement.

Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:52

BadNomad · 30/08/2023 10:44

@Elfandwellbeing
Eh? No one is thinking "aww poor doggies". Dog owners don't think dogs shouldn't be kept outside of cafés. Dog owners are fine with that if they know that's the case. I don't see where you are seeing entitlement.

Edited

Really? The thread is full of people outraged that some cafes don’t let dogs inside. Which wasn’t even remotely the point of the OP, it was about a ND child’s safety but the Fur Baby crew are far more occupied with semantics because they’re so affronted their dog might not be wanted in a place people eat! One poster was even called disgusting for not going into dog friendly cafes

OP posts:
zingally · 30/08/2023 10:57

Probably picking on the wrong thing, but a "dog friendly" cafe, where dogs are only allowed outside is just... a normal cafe, surely? IME, dog friendly means that quiet, well-behaved dogs, who will just lie under, or next to the table, are allowed inside?
If I was google searching for a dog friendly cafe, only to rock up and find out I'm only allowed to sit on a picnic bench outside, I'd probably go elsewhere.

On the actual topic, if she does leave a review (which she probably won't), then your friend can just reply with what you told us she said. Nothing that your friend did/said was unreasonable.

Summerishere123 · 30/08/2023 11:01

As a business owner, your friend should be used to crap like this by now. I was slated online for banning a child from our business after he punched a member of staff and spat in her face. Apparently he has ADHD and should be allowed to behave like that! My son also has ADHD and has never behaved like this!

Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 11:10

IME, dog friendly means that quiet, well-behaved dogs, who will just lie under, or next to the table, are allowed inside?

But that’s not dog friendly because it excludes excitable, badly behaved dogs, puppies and all the dogs that are going to be a bother (most dogs these days)

If I was google searching for a dog friendly cafe, only to rock up and find out I'm only allowed to sit on a picnic bench outside, I'd probably go elsewhere.

That won’t happen as it isn’t advertised as dog friendly

OP posts:
Wednesdaysotherchild · 30/08/2023 11:10

Given the poor service, their kids particular issues and the fact it isn’t dog friendly, the family of 6 should have gone somewhere else and spent their money. I would have done!

Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 11:11

@Wednesdaysotherchild why do you think the service was poor?

OP posts:
Original poster
TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 11:14

And they very much could have gone elsewhere if they didn’t like that the dogs couldn’t be inside - honestly there’s dozens of cafes round here in very close proximity, most of which don’t have gardens and allow dogs inside. But they didn’t.

The cafe is really popular, no 1 on Trip Advisor for the area, renowned for good food etc so I suspect their priority was to try the cafe rather than be somewhere because they wanted their child and dogs indoors.

OP posts:
BadNomad · 30/08/2023 11:27

TicketsThisWayForTheChatsworthExpress · 30/08/2023 10:52

Really? The thread is full of people outraged that some cafes don’t let dogs inside. Which wasn’t even remotely the point of the OP, it was about a ND child’s safety but the Fur Baby crew are far more occupied with semantics because they’re so affronted their dog might not be wanted in a place people eat! One poster was even called disgusting for not going into dog friendly cafes

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But it isn't advertised as dog friendly, so people who want to bring their dogs inside wouldn't go there. People don't rock up to normal cafés with their dogs and demand they be allowed inside. They may wish more places allowed dogs, but that's not the same as being "entitled". In fact, this family had zero issues with their dogs not being allowed inside.

This argument has all come about because people think you were saying it was advertised as dog-friendly.

pikkumyy77 · 30/08/2023 11:31

Dog Hostile => Dog Averse = > Dog Neutral => Dog Tolerant => Dog Friendly => Dog Loving => Dog Focused (no people allowed)

I demand that my preferred ranking be universally adopted and everyone who does not agree will receive a stern set down.