To want to shout from the rooftops PLEASE don't get pregnant..

[CurlewKate]

....until you are absolutely sure that's what you want and you have thought about it and planned for it. By yourself is fine but difficult. If you're doing it with someone else, make sure he is on the same page and willing and ready and free and delighted to be a father. Contraception is incredibly reliable these days-USE it! Accidents happen occasionally, but that's what the MAP is for. If your life is very complicated or your relationship is new or fragile or volatile a baby will NOT help-I promise. It will make things worse, not better.
And breathe.....

What did you mean then when you said The EDUCATIONAL NARRATIVE should change?

How it is talked about in schools/classrooms.

If only real life was so simple. I say that as a woman, happily married for 30 years 3DC with no step or half siblings. Stop stigmatising life choices where maybe a lot more than a decent contraceptive is involved.

And the women choosing them aren't?

You don't always know if someone is going to be a deadbeat father. Can you predict the future?

Curlewkate you have misread my post! I was agreeing with you.the op said as much.that poorer and less advantaged women should think twice about pregnancy. I asked her why .as they often have family nearby and love their dc .please re read?

In other words women should have the option of having DC without feeling they have to have everything just so .Many people dont choose pregnancy ,it happens and then they deal with it ,Always been so .Some things dont always go to plan you know!

But, there is no such thing as a 100% effective contraceptive method. Even IUD's and arm implants have a very small failure rate of women who get pregnant whilst using them, and it may be months before they even know they're pregnant. Myself for example, i don't bleed with my implant. If it failed and i got pregnant, the lack of bleeding wouldn't be a warning sign/ pregnancy indicator, as i expect to not bleed. It would be dependent on other indicators, and not everyone gets morning sickness etc, i could potentially not know i was pregnant until significantly far along when termination is not an option, or would be much more invasive/involve induction and giving birth to a very premature baby. I certainly wouldn't know in time to take MAP.
MAP is also only effective if you have not yet ovulated, as it works by delaying ovulation til the sperm inside you has died off and cannot impragnante you. If you have sex and your contraceptive choice fails (condom for example splits) if you've already ovulated then a MAP isn't going to stop you from potentially getting pregnant.
Even doubling up on 2 contraceptives (e.g pill and condom) still doesn't give 100% protection. A woman can be as careful as she possibly can be and still end up with an unplanned pregnancy. It is certainly not unheard of either for a man to say/act on board with getting pregnant, until a pregnancy actually happens, then change his mind.
What is your "genius solution" for women who do all they can and still end up with an unplanned pregnancy, or a pregnancy where the father was all for it til it actually happened then fucked off? Just terminate the baby, when that could be extremely traumatic for them, especially if it was a wanted/planned baby for them but they cannot cope/afford it when the father does a 180 after she gets pregnant?
You are incredibly judgemental, better hope your contraception defies science and is always 100% effective and an accidental preganancy doesn't ever bite you in your perfect ass.......

While I'll agree with your overall point @CurlewKate, I will point out that it is also possible to use two types of contraception, not be aware you're pregnant until way way too late, end up with a baby 10 months into a relationship, and have it all work out for the best and have a perfectly happy relationship and a very eye rolly teenager 15 years later.

I will admit we're something of an edge case though.

Many women on here admit that the man was shit even before. "Washing machine? Never managed haha bless him" and so on.

No, you can't predict complete change, you can, however, very easily predict no change. No man will sudenly stop being scared of hoover and learn how to cook when he never did do these things before. He will not be picking up his share, it can be very very clear.

I didn't know I was pregnant until I was after two months. A bit late for the MAP. I had very irregular periods from when I started as a teen and was on the pill. Pregnancy didn't even cross my mind. I was young and absolutely bulletproof.

Neither of us wanted kids at that time. However when our child arrived we could not have loved and cherished them more.

Yes we were young and skint, but we gave him a lovely upbringing, worked damn hard to give him the best and he is an angel. Unlike a family member, financially very solvent, early 50s, had IVF and can barely contain their annoyance with their kids for existing and always looks exhausted.

Your post is judgemental, not to mention wrong. Not all unplanned children are a disaster.

No, you can't predict complete change, you can, however, very easily predict no change. No man will sudenly stop being scared of hoover and learn how to cook when he never did do these things before. He will not be picking up his share, it can be very very clear.

Good point.

A 100%. Well said @PrinnyPree

No, no contraceptive is 100%. But there are several methods which are pretty damn close.
No, there is the possibility that a Prince Among Men will suddenly turn into a Dead Beat Dad at the first glimpse of a dirty nappy. But you know what? I'm going to go out on a limb and say when this happens, a woman's mother, sister, friends or even strangers on Mumsnet will be unsurprised.

Anyone can find themselves pregnant in a situation which is not ideal but it's how you deal with it going forward.

It's the ones that ignore the red flags and keep repeating the same mistakes again and again.

The ones that need a new man to get over the last one and then want a baby to cement their relationship even though that failed the last time.

Some women sadly only see their worth by being with a man and having his child.

How good a man is at housework is not a reliable prediction of performance as a father though. A man that hoovers and cooks can still be a shit father that screams at the kids because he’s paranoid about “mess” and then dictates they must “clear their plates” and be grateful for the food he cooked them because children are starving who’d be grateful to eat pigs trotter and tomato stew don’t ya know. Whereas a man who doesn’t care about hoovering and is a useless cook can be awesome at night times feeds, settling and nappy changes. Cheer up a screaming toddler in ten seconds flat. Spend hours showing them how to put together and play with a toy. Read bedtime stories and do all the voices just right.

In other words hoovering and cooking skills are not fathering skills. You’re barking up the wrong tree if you think they are any prediction of fathering capability.

YANBU

"How good a man is at housework is not a reliable prediction of performance as a father though."

A man who is not prepared to do his share of domestic work and leaves it all to his partner is by definition not a good role model and therefore not a good father.

Patronising thread OP. Keep your beak out.

We aren’t talking after the kids are here. We are talking as a prediction for being a future father. Domestic work isn’t only hoovering and cooking. And aptitude for either is not a good measure for how good a father a man will be.

Like many women cut back on work to do more around the house once kids arrive, so do many men.

Many men who love a clean house and love to cook pre kids, can’t stand the mess kids make after they arrive and are shit fathers who dont let kids be kids or spend all their time escaping the new “chaos” of the home.

It’s a mistake to think that fair share of domestic work before kids is any indicator of good fathering after kids. But feel free to ignore my old woman wisdom.

What's it got to do with you, one way or another?

What's the relevance? So the DH is a PITA. that's his wife's problem, not yours. If she wants to have a family with him, her choice.

So we shame women for wanting children instead of shaming the male population into being better people, as usual.

@OctoGirl
So don't complain he's as shit father after proving he's a shit partner.

Really? Women have come a long way from being chattels of men. I know several younger women who have been let down by the fathers of their children, some in my wider family, who have dug in, like so many before them, and made a success of parenting. But its been hard financially and emotionally.

Much as they love their children, most didn’t go on to have several more with waste of space men. I’ve met women through volunteering, in their forties, who’ve never worked. Their reason being ‘they had children’. When the youngest child gets to a certain age, the benefits all but disappear, their options are very limited, they’ve realised a man isn’t the answer. Wouldn’t it be better if they got that message before they find out the hard way?

It’s great when a bad start turns out well, but so many don’t. As a grandmother, I really hope my DGC (not just the girls) get the message.

Why should we have to validate poor choices? This is a forum for thought and discussion. While life happens we should aspire for the best.