To want to shout from the rooftops PLEASE don't get pregnant..

[CurlewKate]

....until you are absolutely sure that's what you want and you have thought about it and planned for it. By yourself is fine but difficult. If you're doing it with someone else, make sure he is on the same page and willing and ready and free and delighted to be a father. Contraception is incredibly reliable these days-USE it! Accidents happen occasionally, but that's what the MAP is for. If your life is very complicated or your relationship is new or fragile or volatile a baby will NOT help-I promise. It will make things worse, not better.
And breathe.....

I'm asked all the time why I dont have kids yet. I'm 32. I didnt have the best childhood and don't feel like I can bring any child into this world until I feel like my life is settled. Unfortunately I still don't feel like this. I think some people will never understand this.

I agree. For one thing its practically impossible to be 'shit at housework' given the skill set required is within pretty much everyone's reach.
When people say this they are actually misinterpreting another attitude or behaviour that demotivates the person to do housework. Which can range from prioritising other things, to a subjective view of how much HW is actually needed that differs between the couple, to a laziness and entitlement that means they expect to be served. Only the third would be indicative of faults that would spill over into parenting.
By the standards of many I'm 'shit at housework' which means I do the minimum and prioritise other things. A partner with different standards for how a home should be kept may well by the logic on the thread conclude this would make me a bad mother.

I completely understand. I didn't have a child until I knew I could provide a stable and secure home regardless of whether the father stayed around or not.

I had ds in my 40s. It's all worked out fine. Keep working on improving your circumstances and you'll get there.

I think people put more thought into deciding they want a child than deciding if they should have one which is sad. Even being asked to think about it makes people feel defensive!

Nice But Olympics, but it was very clear what I meant.

We shame enablers who then act like a surprised victim.

Wanting women to have some standards is not shaming women.

It's none of your business or anyone else's. This has gone from concern about children to being a busy body in people's relationships. Bizarre.

If people choose to vent on an anon forum, the can complain about it. You aren't mnhq.

I had my first daughter whilst living with my mum and in a very new relationship with her dad. We are now in a home together as family and have just welcomed our second child together. Happier than ever and have a relationship with excellent communication.
We adore our children.
I know of families with more money and a traditional beginning who are dysfunctional and full of resentment behind closed doors.
This topic is so nuanced you simply don’t know how things are going to pan out.

Also FWIW my parents were married and very comfortable financially and held senior positions in well respected jobs when they had me and my sister. Four years after I (the youngest) was born there were affairs and divorce followed by years of emotional abuse towards me and my sister, mum turned in to an alcoholic for a period of time and dad disappeared out of our lives for 10 years. They should never have married, they were very different people. Doing things the ‘right way’ isn’t always a predictor of it working out for the best. Many single mums I know are the happiest women in my life because they were brave enough to parent alone rather than stay in a situation that society thinks they should be in to be worthy of being a mother.

The problem with this thread is - not all women are equipped to make good choices. If you've had a stable upbringing, you are far more likely to be able to make good choices for yourself. Amongst women who have had disrupted childhoods, I think it's more variable. Not to patronise anyone because obviously some people have made it come good, but for others, there is a cycle of mental health issues, etc. Hell, this can happen to anyone, stable upbringing or not.

So in an ideal world, your post makes sense. But not everyone is able to see the world as you do.

I made some poor choices earlier in life. I have a neurodiverse condition that was undiagnosed at the time, which looking back would have had a significant bearing on my choices. It isn't always as simple as telling women to make better choices.

I think the more relevant issue is lack of support system, be that women having to live far away from extended family due to housing costs, or lack of services from families due to council or NHS budget restrictions.

On a global scale almost half of all pregnancies are unplanned. Not sure the rooftop is high enough to shout from.

Is anyone ever sure they want/are ready for a baby? 100 percent sure?

I agree, OP, but I doubt things will change much.

People have all sorts of reasons for getting pregnant, though genuine 'accidents' nowadays are pretty rare, I think.

Rubbish to say it's not OP's business - the tragedy of unwanted children or children who are doomed to live miserable, abused and neglected lives are everyone's business. You only have to spend a few mins on MN to hear about very sad situations which must be miserable for the children.

There was one poster recently who had 2 children by a horrendous waste-of-space man (one, you could understand!) and they'd broken up briefly, during which time he'd managed to get another woman pregnant. He'd then returned and been taken back.

The onus was definitely going to be on these women to make the lives of these children OK, and this idiot would always be there in the background, contributing nothing but negatives.

And I'm really sceptical that such men don't give warning of their hopelessness as human beings (and parents) way before they impregnate someone.

There's also some rather naive ivory tower thinking underlying this concept.
If we assume that the default position for women is having the privelege to choose from a wide pool of decent, hard working, progressive thinking men, then it may be reasonable to put the onus on them to 'choose wisely'.
However the reality for many women actually comes down more to the least worst option. If you've been raised in a community where 'a good man' is one without a criminal record, and a 'good dad' is one stays in touch with his multiple children from several partners and tells his drinking mates they're 'his world'; if you have few options to broaden your experience and will likely live and die within the same postcode; how are you going to know that six figure Nigel with a changing bag in one hand and a feather duster in the other even exists? Let alone be in a position to marry him.

And I'm really sceptical that such men don't give warning of their hopelessness as human beings (and parents) way before they impregnate someone.

I think some women whether consciously or unconsciously overlook the warnings because they are desperate to have children. And they are not prepared to wait for something better to come along in case they end up childless.

I don’t know… Some of the best people I know were born into not ideal circumstances. That’s just how life is.

There is another option: saying no to it all. No to a poor relationship and no to having children in a poor relationship. Women need to know this is an option because throughout history and even now being single is seen as a bad thing but I think it is so much better than being with a person who doesn’t respect you. Whether women take the option or not. Is up to them but I hope someone reads this and thinks they have a choice

Totally agree, OP. Lots of people taking your sensible post personally because the truth hurts, we don’t like admitting to ourselves that we might have made mistakes.

To those saying ‘but he was lovely before we had kids and then he began being a twat’. I just don’t buy this. A good, decent man doesn’t turn into an arsehole when he becomes a father. An arsehole is always an arsehole, you just ignored the red flags.

@OutsideLookingOut If we assume that the main driver for women having relationships and children is that it's the done thing, and being single is stigmatised (which i agree it is) and if we just changed that mind set they could be happily single and child free, then you might be on to something. However, I believe there are motivations for wanting to have children other than socialisation, and they can be very powerful.
Again, it's all well and good for educated, confident women with access to other support networks and lifestyle choices to reject the traditional model. Many women with less priveleged lives would prefer to live them within a family, albeit one that is less than optimum, than to live them alone.

This forum is a parental one named, 'Mumsnet' so not wholly about the abstract thoughts and discussion on the perfect conditions for having children. By definition of posting on here many of us have had children and the threads will be about that reality, they are not asking for your or other posters' validation, they simply want some tips or advice from others who have experienced the same.

IME the 'best' things in life rarely come without upset, sacrifice and some wasted time. To me having DC is one of the best things I have experienced but it is not a straightforward path, the outcome is still 'the best' but life is not a simplistic trajectory of things getting better and better and better and that's how the OP reads. Don't have children unless you have 100 percent guarantees, who has that. My DD was the outcome of a fling to an RAF Officer in the last couple of months of the second world war, he didn't want to know so my Dad was adopted at 3 months and had an amazing childhood. If he hadn't existed, we wouldn't have existed. My Dad had affairs and my parents' divorced and it was a rocky road but I am still glad my Mum had us. My Dad is very emotionally available for us and he is an Intelligent man that a good attributes for fatherhood. On the otherhand his income was high and then very low and unstable, not so great. My DH is a provider and is driven and is reliable financially, which is a great attribute for Fatherhood but like me he has areas that are not so great for parenthood. Who is to say what these perfect conditions are and who has them all at once.

Thats a very bold statement. Which, unless you are at the very end of your life, having been happily married throughout to a man who never changed, you may, like many other women, naively confident in the protection their "wise choice" affords them, may come to review.

There is no message for absolutely everyone, we have to decide what is right for ourselves with our hearts and our heads and the cards we were dealt with in life. I did not have a privileged upbringing and nor did my parents.

They used their own experiences to decide on having two kids instead of 8+ like their own parents and to get an education studying at nights and working minimum wage in the day. I think when we know we have choices it can help. There are still women who will have children just because it is expected, this message is for them.

Rubbish to say it's not OP's business - the tragedy of unwanted children or children who are doomed to live miserable, abused and neglected lives are everyone's business.

How is your dad not tidying up or washing his own plate an indicator of a doomed childhood of abuse and neglect, and tragedy as you say?

None of OP's business.

And the irony is, in these situations, the couple is usually stable! Stable enough to live together often married, and with planned children.

Most unplanned pregnancies don't result in abuse either so that's bollocks. The worst that usually happens is the parents might split up later down the line. Where is the tragedy?

Aspiring to do the best you can does not mean perfection. If you think the only option is perfection why bother trying at all? I still stand that is a good thing to let women know they have choices, to think about if they really want a child etc etc etc. I am happy you’ve found having DC to be a good thing for you, that is what I want for others.

I think too we can as humans think the exception is the rule when it isn’t. It is like planning for your retirement- many might plan and die before they reach it but many more would have found planning for it helpful because they do reach old age.

And the thing is, the premise isn't wrong. Everyone should be more thoughtful when considering children.

But how condescending. Honestly, you're not getting through to anyone op. Do you have any lived experience of being in this position, or are you just on your soapbox preaching to us?

But also, we aren't talking about abuse here. Every single person would agree that no pregnancy should occur.

But we've now progressed to encompass unplanned pregnancies, contraceptive failures, women who's husbands aren't helpful around the house, and I imagine any teenage girl or young woman finds herself pregnant deserves a good kicking, too.