Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think being female and white is what meant Lucy Letby could continue her crimes?

267 replies

sociallyanxiouspartone · 27/08/2023 11:18

Let's face it, the reality is as women we are often disadvantaged but being a woman in this case is what meant Lucy went under the radar for so long and the fact she was white combined with this and looked like the 'girl next door' is what meant more babies lost their lives than needed to.

Just imagine, a male non white nurse was in the same position he would have been called out much much earlier

Let's hope this helps people think about how harmful stereotyping can actually be.

Sorry to all the families that lost babies in all of this 💐

OP posts:
Reugny · 27/08/2023 20:26

WillowCraft · 27/08/2023 20:22

No, but lower class people do get treated worse by the police, the justice system and in most of society. Police men and women are by definition employed and have some qualifications so that puts them above the lowest in society, in terms of class.

Not all police officers do have good qualifications though. They just know who they need to obey and protect if they know what is good for them.

ididntthough · 27/08/2023 20:28

Primarily it was managerial incompetence at the hospital and management’s desire to ignore something serious and hope it will go away that helped her to evade the cloud of suspicion gathering over her for so long. The consultants figured out what was going on long before the police were alerted. Lack of resourcing also an issue.

Catusrusty · 27/08/2023 20:52

The NHS is as woke as fuck.

So I believe if Lucy was a black transwoman she would still be killing babies.

See how easy it is to make a totally meaningless statement as though it is a fact?

You've no evidence that Lucy's skin colour affected for how long she committed her crimes.

Just like sadiq khan and his latest media that white people aren't real Londoners, anti white bias just like your post is A okay.

Lucy Letby offended for as long as she did because she was in a position of medical trust and because the NHS covered it up as they didn't want bad publicity.

That's why.

Sdpbody · 27/08/2023 20:53

I don't think it's because she's white. I 100% think it's because she's a women.

Oblomov23 · 27/08/2023 20:57

I agree with @Catusrusty. This is so the NHS rotten to the core. We all know this. I don't know why anyone is surprised.

Richmondgal · 27/08/2023 21:01

Really
give it a rest for goodness sake

Daisybuttercup12345 · 27/08/2023 21:19

LordEmsworth · 27/08/2023 11:23

Just imagine, a male non white nurse was in the same position he would have been called out much much earlier
Citation needed. Do you have any evidence or is that pure speculation?

This.

RMC12345 · 28/08/2023 08:06

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

RMC12345 · 28/08/2023 08:07

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Baldieheid · 28/08/2023 09:39

It's the fact that a nurse, somebody trained and paid to care for vulnerable individuals, did this that's hard to deal with.

Did she go into nursing intending to harm? Did she begin to harm after whatever is twisted inside her mind/soul shifted to a new level? Did she manage to hide her wish to harm all through her life, or were there "odd instances" as a child that raised an eyebrow or two?

Her being a nurse, like Shipman being a GP and Couzins being a police officer, makes each set of crimes such a breathtaking betrayal of the trust that automatically comes with such roles.

Maybe we need to stop putting people into "automatically good" categories because of their professions.

Inastatus · 28/08/2023 09:47

Catusrusty · 27/08/2023 20:52

The NHS is as woke as fuck.

So I believe if Lucy was a black transwoman she would still be killing babies.

See how easy it is to make a totally meaningless statement as though it is a fact?

You've no evidence that Lucy's skin colour affected for how long she committed her crimes.

Just like sadiq khan and his latest media that white people aren't real Londoners, anti white bias just like your post is A okay.

Lucy Letby offended for as long as she did because she was in a position of medical trust and because the NHS covered it up as they didn't want bad publicity.

That's why.

@Catusrusty - 100% agree.

MrsKeats · 28/08/2023 09:48

The vast majority of serial killers are white so
I'm not so sure this is true.

crocsaremybf · 28/08/2023 10:03

What I think is if she was from a different race, there would have been more done to "keep an eye on her" without pointing fingers directly at her to cover the "we're not racist" but make sure everyone was being watched on the ward. But personally her being white, blonde, sweet and mc made the first concerns dismissed and it took 7 babies and many attempted murders until they actually looked at the picture.

Baldieheid · 28/08/2023 10:09

MrsKeats · 28/08/2023 09:48

The vast majority of serial killers are white so
I'm not so sure this is true.

In this country, yes, because the biggest population demographic is white. Over 80%, I believe?

I bet most serial killers in China or Nigeria aren't white.

MrsKeats · 28/08/2023 10:14

I think it's the same in America too.

quantumbutterfly · 28/08/2023 10:28

Baldieheid · 28/08/2023 09:39

It's the fact that a nurse, somebody trained and paid to care for vulnerable individuals, did this that's hard to deal with.

Did she go into nursing intending to harm? Did she begin to harm after whatever is twisted inside her mind/soul shifted to a new level? Did she manage to hide her wish to harm all through her life, or were there "odd instances" as a child that raised an eyebrow or two?

Her being a nurse, like Shipman being a GP and Couzins being a police officer, makes each set of crimes such a breathtaking betrayal of the trust that automatically comes with such roles.

Maybe we need to stop putting people into "automatically good" categories because of their professions.

We know that people who wish to harm, put themselves into positions that enable them. That's why we have the concept of safeguarding (if not always the reality).
'lessons will be learned', let's hope the people learning them can pass the next time they're tested.
We rightly make a fuss about the failures, they aren't the norm.

sociallyanxiouspartone · 28/08/2023 10:39

I also do agree with many posters saying it is just as much about class,

Look at Madeline McCann for example. Those doctor parents got treated much much nicer than if the parents were lower class.

OP posts:
Luckydip1 · 28/08/2023 11:36

sociallyanxiouspartone · 28/08/2023 10:39

I also do agree with many posters saying it is just as much about class,

Look at Madeline McCann for example. Those doctor parents got treated much much nicer than if the parents were lower class.

Agreed, nice white middle class parents and it was front page news. So many children go missing but hardly get a mention in the press.

sociallyanxiouspartone · 28/08/2023 12:27

@Luckydip1 but also the level of scrutiny the hot and public finding to find her. That kind of help would never have been given to a lower class family as it would have been deemed completely unacceptable to leave your children while you go get drunk in a foreign country

OP posts:
QueenMegan · 28/08/2023 12:53

The fact she's a sociopath is the reason. Not everything is about gender or colour.

lifeturnsonadime · 28/08/2023 12:59

I'm not sure it's the reason she got away with it for so long, I'm fairly sure it is the reason that many are tying themselves in knots to argue that she has been unfairly convicted or couldn't have done it.

She's a psychopath, the fact that they walk amongst us unnoticed is unbearable for many. The fact that a psychopath can be a white, good looking, educated woman who reminds us of ourselves, friends , sisters and daughters is unthinkable for many. Which is why so many on here insist she couldn't have done it.

MavisMcMinty · 28/08/2023 13:10

If Letby had been a new member of staff her actions would have been picked up much earlier, but she’d been an established, trusted, reliable team member for a number of years, and afaik (although investigations are ongoing) the number of deaths and collapses didn’t start happening until after she qualified to work in the ICU part of the neonatal unit in 2015. She wasn’t on probation and worked without supervision - she was a senior nurse in terms of qualifications and experience.

Sayitaintso33 · 28/08/2023 13:12

WillowCraft · 27/08/2023 20:22

No, but lower class people do get treated worse by the police, the justice system and in most of society. Police men and women are by definition employed and have some qualifications so that puts them above the lowest in society, in terms of class.

Juries are predominantly working class.

Neapolitanicecream · 28/08/2023 13:19

Total see your point To the extent that the consultant, yes consultant was made to apologise to her - a nurse !!!!!

I immediately knew that the consultant was non- white because there’s no way a consultant would be overruled by a nurses regarding medical care

MavisMcMinty · 28/08/2023 13:37

Neapolitanicecream · 28/08/2023 13:19

Total see your point To the extent that the consultant, yes consultant was made to apologise to her - a nurse !!!!!

I immediately knew that the consultant was non- white because there’s no way a consultant would be overruled by a nurses regarding medical care

Sounds like you think consultants should never apologise to nurses, because they are DOCTORS and know everything.

And the first consultant to raise concerns was white. Dunno about the other 5, but yes, at least one of the seven was not white.