To think being female and white is what meant Lucy Letby could continue her crimes?

[sociallyanxiouspartone]

Let's face it, the reality is as women we are often disadvantaged but being a woman in this case is what meant Lucy went under the radar for so long and the fact she was white combined with this and looked like the 'girl next door' is what meant more babies lost their lives than needed to.

Just imagine, a male non white nurse was in the same position he would have been called out much much earlier

Let's hope this helps people think about how harmful stereotyping can actually be.

Sorry to all the families that lost babies in all of this 💐

Yes, it's 100% white privilege.

It's so very obviously white privilege, but Mumsnet skews very right wing and has very odd ideas about racism, so of course the existence of white privilege is being mocked and belittled.

There's a reason MN has a reputation for having a massive problem with racism. Endless threads about how awful Meghan Markle and other black celebs are, any thread about a black female celeb is full of goady dog whistles, endless threads about how fun golly dolls are, how blackface is fine, how black actors shouldn't play white characters. Anyone asking "was this racist" is always told no, of course not, you're being oversensitive and "playing the race card", unless it's anti-white racism, which according to MN is the only valid form of racism that exists.

Any black posters trying to discuss their experience of racism get mocked and trolled and have their experiences belittled, and often subject to mass false reports to try to get their posts deleted and banned.

Look at the abuse when someone advocated for a Black Mumsnetter forum, some Mumsnetters were so furious they even photoshopped fake DMs to try to get her banned. Just because they were so obsessed with hating black women.

Compare the response to the BLM protests (lots of threads full of comments baying for their blood calling them thugs) vs the threads about the white supremacy protest that followed (nearly all "I don't agree with them but I will defend to the death their right to protest because of free speech).

The threads about George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery were horrendous.

And yet being Asian allowed the rape gangs in Rotherham and elsewhere get away with their crimes because the authorities thought they might be seen as racist. I think believing LL wasn't investigated sooner because she was white is quite a reach.

The majority of grooming gangs in the UK are white, the vast majority of pedophiles and sex traffickers in the UK are white, yet they receive almost no media coverage, because they can't be used to stoke racism. The fact Rotherham has received such vastly disproportionate media coverage compared to white grooming gangs disproves your point.

There's a ton of evidence showing that people of colour are more likely to be stopped by police, searched without any reason, more likely to be arrested and charged over minor crimes, and receive harsher jail terms for the same crimes. Black kids are perceived as much older than white kids and more likely to be stopped, arrested for things white kids wouldn't be arrested for.

Threads about racism always end badly on MN because there are a lot of posters on Mumsnet who quite frankly and full on white supremacists, refuse point blank to believe that racism exists (except for "anti white racism), and seem desperate to undermine anyone black discussing their experience of racism.

The fact there are now Lucy Letby Truthers is proof of how much racism played a role. Because often when a white person is accused of a serious crime like these, elements on the far right adopt them as a cause. It's exactly the same as Sandy Hook Truthers. That would never, ever happen in a case of a non-white person committing those same crimes.

I've been on Mumsnet for a long time.

Like clockwork, every single time anyone mentions the existence of racism (especially when it's black posters talking about their personal experience) they're met with a horde of white posters screaming "PROVE THAT RACISM EXISTS PROVE IT!!!!"

Like. Clockwork.

And usually with the intention of goading people into saying stuff so that they can then belittle and try to undermine it.

Really, you need "citations" for the fact racism exists? For the fact white privilege exists?

One Asian consultant & THREE white consultants were made to give her an apology. In what way shape or form is that racism? You also seem to imply a nurse is a lowly profession. It most certainly is not, and most Dr's on their way to Consultant learn a great deal from nurses.

Sadly I believe you are skewing your statement with your own brand of racism.

Some of your statements:
The majority of grooming gangs in the UK are white,
Prove it, and at the same time divide total population by ethnicty to give the true percentage.

There's a ton of evidence showing that people of colour are more likely to be stopped by police, searched without any reason, more likely to be arrested and charged over minor crimes, and receive harsher jail terms for the same crimes. Black kids are perceived as much older than white kids and more likely to be stopped, arrested for things white kids wouldn't be arrested for.
Not entirely true. If you have an area with eg 80% POC then of course statistically a POC is more likely to be stopped.
Penalties for convictions are set down in law and also take into account previous behaviour.
Kids looking older. How often do we read on these boards of teenage girls being mistaken for older. Different groups do mature physically or mentally earlier than others.

The fact there are now Lucy Letby Truthers is proof of how much racism played a role. Because often when a white person is accused of a serious crime like these, elements on the far right adopt them as a cause. It's exactly the same as Sandy Hook Truthers. That would never, ever happen in a case of a non-white person committing those same crimes.
I'm going to use the George Floyd case as an example because you used it yourself and that he was used as the poster boy for BLM. Yes his arrest was appaling. Yes the officer is a complete . However remember the police had been called due to a suspected offence commited by George Floyd and that he had a string of convictions and had been in jail on a number of occasions.

The majority of grooming gangs in the UK are white,
Prove it, and at the same time divide total population by ethnicty to give the true percentage.

From the article: Most child sexual abuse gangs made up of white men, Home Office report says

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report

@CallumDansTransitVan you do understand that George Floyd was murdered, right? As in unlawfully and intentionally killed. By uniformed police.

I can’t believe you just used his murder as a gotcha to undermine evidence of racism in UK society.

@CallumDansTransitVan let me help you on the statistical evidence.

Black people are disproportionately likely to be stopped and searched compared with white people.

That means that when the relative population sizes, relative social structures, previous activities etc are all taken into consideration, and calculations are used to balance the numbers fairly, Black people are shown to be substantially more likely to be stopped and searched compared with white people.

Taken directly from the report. Not some skewed ideas up by the Guardian.
There is a limited amount of research looking at the ethnicity of perpetrators of
group-based CSE, which makes it difficult to draw conclusions about whether or not
certain ethnicities are over-represented in this type of offending. What research
there is tends to rely on poor-quality data, with issues in a number of areas

Yabu, like Harold Shipman I think it is as her victims were sadly in a circumstance that meant their death was not treated as suspicious- eg v old and v premature.

From the report:

Police-collected data on ethnicity uses broad categories and requires the police to assign an ethnicity rather than it being self-reported by offenders. Data is therefore not always accurate; Berelowitz et al. (2012) observed cases of offenders being initially classed as ‘Asian’ but actually coming from other backgrounds, such as White British or Afghan.

Data was returned on approximately 2,300 possible offenders, but approximately 1,100 were excluded from analysis due to a lack of basic information. In the remaining 1,200 cases, ethnicity data was unknown for 38% of them. Where data was available 30% of offenders were White, while 28% were Asian. Due to the amount of missing data, both basic offender information and ethnicity specifically, these figures should be treated with caution.

I don't agree, OP. I think it's a huge leap to make that assumption.

I agree with PPs that the following factors allowed LL to get away with her crimes for so long:

She looks ordinary - perfectly nice looking but not 'stand-out'
She seems to have come over as pleasant and co-operative to colleagues
She must have given an impression of competence - so no discipline issues

But more importantly than any of these factors is that the management didn't want any trouble or bad publicity, and were probably lazy into the bargain. It was just easier on many levels to ignore warnings and 'see how things went', or to hope the problem would go away. To me, this was most crucial in allowing LL to get away with it for so long.

There's no evidence that either race or gender were factors at all.

This. Absolutely. You’ve put it really well. And the disbelief that a young, blonde, pretty, white woman could murder babies comes from bias towards all of those atributes.

No I think the managers who did nothing are the reason why she was able to continue to get away with it. Concerns were raised several times over by consultants

@CoffeeCantata what do you mean by "She looks ordinary - perfectly nice looking but not 'stand-out'"?

A few commentators have made statements like that and what they mean is exactly what PPs plus the post under yours by Birdienumnumm states. In this country statements like "ordinary" and "nice" are loaded with people's preconceived ideas. This means her sex, race and class are all factors in why she got away so long with murdering and attempting to murder babies.

This is a majority white country, it should be the case that there are more white criminals in any category of crime.

Yes totally. She looked like butter wouldn't melt, little miss innocent.
I'm sure that's why it took so long. I mean suspicion was raised but it was ignored.
Not anti anything, just a fact sadly.

I know it’s always been said that the Asian grooming gangs weren’t investigated because of fears of appearing racist. But subsequent events have led me to suspect that it’s more to do with institutionalised contempt for women - and especially working class women - within the police force. It’s not as if the police seem particularly concerned about not appearing racist at any other time.

I think it’s a mix of both!

When you read the SCR around the Rotherham scandal and what police officers said about teenage victims of sexual exploitation, it would absolutely turn your stomach! Calling children slags etc.

She’s hardly what you think of when someone says the phrase “serial kilker”. It’s highly unusual for a woman to be a serial killer for a start, especially when acting alone.

I’m not going to comment on the race issue as I really don’t know but I think that while some serial killers may of been obviously disturbed from the start a lot more of them are good at masking their true selves.

Total see your point To the extent that the consultant, yes consultant was made to apologise to her - a nurse !!!!!

I immediately knew that the consultant was non- white because there’s no way a consultant would be overruled by a nurses regarding medical care

That would be a shame if the nurse was right and the doctor was wrong.

But regarding Lethby, the consultant, and others who raised concerns about her, were made to apologise to her for complaining when the management decided their concerns were not worth perusing.

This ! There were a gay couple who abused an adopted child and they weren’t discovered for a while because the authorities didn’t want to appear to be homophobic.

Do you have a link?

Is this it?

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/abuse-of-sanity-the-truth-about-how-a-council-allowed-a-paedophile-gay-couple-to-adopt-6627050.html

Agree wholeheartedly. I believe there was a major sense of apathy and disregard for want of a better phrase 'frequent flyers' being brought to the attention of the Police. I truly believe that officers found to have behaved the way they did, should be hauled before the court and investigated under Misconduct in a Public Office. If found guilty have their massive pensions removed.

I think the Star Hobson case was partly not investigated as the older woman claiming that reports made to social services were spurious due to the same sex relationship.

Threads about racism always end badly on MN because there are a lot of posters on Mumsnet who quite frankly and full on white supremacists, refuse point blank to believe that racism exists (except for "anti white racism), and seem desperate to undermine anyone black discussing their experience of racism

This is true, it's very cringey to read. Lots of racist and racial micro aggression bingo on MN.