To think being female and white is what meant Lucy Letby could continue her crimes?

[sociallyanxiouspartone]

Let's face it, the reality is as women we are often disadvantaged but being a woman in this case is what meant Lucy went under the radar for so long and the fact she was white combined with this and looked like the 'girl next door' is what meant more babies lost their lives than needed to.

Just imagine, a male non white nurse was in the same position he would have been called out much much earlier

Let's hope this helps people think about how harmful stereotyping can actually be.

Sorry to all the families that lost babies in all of this 💐

Yes I agree. Boys too I think. Her elder brother is blonde haired blue eyed aswell and was quite cheeky/naughty as a child. His best friend was a black boy. Guess which child got told off more.

It Can Be More Than One Thing.

Her looks, her age, her sex and professionalism probably made her look an unlikely serial murderer. In the same way that a recent crime file I listened to were looking for the killer of a young child and we’re not expecting it to be a teenager!

Isn't there something extra in her family background. Didn't her father have influence by threatening to take doctors to the GMC when they wanted an investigation in the early days.
No typical dad would have as much clout.

She didn't have the "nice" persona of LL, wasn't from a middle class background and didn't keep her hair blonde. (She was also caught stealing opiates)

I think her parents were incredibly protective, they seem to have not allowed her or wanted her to grow up. They would probably been happier if she had stayed at home with them.

I really can’t decide whether I agree with OP at all. It’s certainly true that much of the public reaction has been shock at the fact that someone who looks so nice can be a murderer. And we know unconscious bias is a thing.

But I’m uncomfortable with where some of these comments come from. It doesn’t seem a massive leap, for example, to go from claiming that her sex allowed her to go under the radar for so long to then trying to say, “Look, you see - we need to be much more vigilant towards women because they’re just as bad”

As a pp pointed out, women are much less likely to be killers. That’s a fact.

Some real horror stories about how foreign nurses are treated by the NHS management in this article.

I think there is hierarchy in nursing and LL being UK born and white was part of the reason, and these foreign nurses wouldn’t have been given the relentless benefit of doubt by NHS management that LL was given. The chief executive of the trust, Tony Exwards, was coaching LL through her reviews during investigations into the murders!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/27/trapped-and-destitute-how-foreign-nurses-uk-dreams-turned-sour

Anyone can report a doctor to the GMC, you just fill in an online form. Her dad might have been a bit of a “did you upset my little princess” over-protective sort (most people wouldn’t get involved in their adult daughter’s workplace problems). But he wouldn’t need any particular connections or influence to make that particular threat (and it wouldn’t have gone anywhere, it would have been sent back for local resolution).

I agree. The idea that she got away with because she was white is nonsense. If anything, it was more class-based. She seemed 'nice' and 'ordinary' and suburban. Had she been common and 'chavvy' people would have been quicker to believe the allegations. Even now people find it hard to accept that a seemingly 'nice' girl could do such things.

It was enough to make the doctors back down.

@JaneyGee

Yes. It was more class based.

Speak for yourself. I don't immediately think black when I imagine a murderer.

Sure, but it doesn’t mean he knew people in high places or anything, as a PP suggested.

Do people tend to think of serial murderers as black? Male definitely, but I would picture a white male. The more well known, heinous ones tend to be white males.

When thinking of say, American gang warfare, in the name of complete honesty, I would probably picture a black or hispanic male, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a white man. I do feel guilty realising that I’m biased in that way – but I think the statistics back that up. Obviously it’s been harder for those ethnic groups to become as wealthy generally speaking in the USA which is known to lead to increased crime rates. But low income, gang type crime is very different to serial killing in motivation I think.

I think its far more that she was a woman, than anything racial in people not believing she could have done it.

Concerns were initially raised by an Indian male doctor- he was one of the triad accused of bullying her.

I totally agree OP. It reminds me of the Bawa-Garba case. The press went to town on her when her hospital/colleagues threw her under the bus. I've read another article today saying Letby's best friends who were her colleagues refuse to accept what she's done because they think she's innocent (despite the evidence). Institutional racism? Fucking hell yes.

It was an Indian consultant who initially raised the alarm in Letsby's murders and he was sent away and later asked to apologise to her (him and three others).

Yes but probably for away with for as long as she did because she was white! Anyone else would've had their license to practise taken away after the first incident:

www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/medical-school-interview/nhs-hot-topics/bawa-garba-case/

I don't think race, age or looks allowed her to continue doing what she did. Piss poor management allowed it. I feel truly sorry for her colleagues who did speak out and weren't listened to.

Thankfully cases of health workers doing appaling things is rare. But a quick google will show workers of all colour & creed being found guilty of despicable things done over long periods. They get away with it, just like Saville, because nobody wants to believe they are capable of it.

I can't wait to see the notes/ investigation into the Managers, and why they made the Consultants / Doctors apologise to her.

What was the racial profile of the other three Dr's who reported and subsequently had to apologise?

If the other three were white British. Could it be argued it was majority White men penalised for speaking out and as such was racist? I of course don't think that. I believe it was a useless management struture trying to cover their own arses.

I don't think people ever expect a nurse to be capable of this, ok female even less but it's unfathomable how anyone can do this

I think it's something else.
I think it's the way she comes across apparently she was very calm and inspired confidence I people.

No matter colour or sex I've seen people like this in action. It's more powerful imp

It's not bias to assume when hearing about American gang warfare that the participants are black or hispanic men so you shouldn't feel guilty about it. Any more than you should feel guilty for picturing a white man when you hear about a serial killer in somewhere like the UK. Those are perfectly rational starting assumptions, grounded in statistics.

There are exceptionally few female serial killers, let alone serial killers of babies.