To think being female and white is what meant Lucy Letby could continue her crimes?

[sociallyanxiouspartone]

Let's face it, the reality is as women we are often disadvantaged but being a woman in this case is what meant Lucy went under the radar for so long and the fact she was white combined with this and looked like the 'girl next door' is what meant more babies lost their lives than needed to.

Just imagine, a male non white nurse was in the same position he would have been called out much much earlier

Let's hope this helps people think about how harmful stereotyping can actually be.

Sorry to all the families that lost babies in all of this 💐

Harold Shipman and Charlie Cullen got away with it for years, whereas Drs raised concerns about LL after the second or third incident, less than a month after it began.

Who is it you are accusing of unconscious bias - not the consultants? Did the management even meet her when they brushed concerns away?

I am inclined to agree too.

Even now some people think she is innocent and can’t believe she did it - based on how she looks/is perceived.

I think she got away with it mainly because she was a medical professional in a position of responsibility, same reason Harold Shipman got away with it for so long.

It's not an empty stereotype that men are more likely to commit violent crime and murder, it's a fact.

I agree her 'not being the type' has raised interest in the case and changed the reporting of it. It probably did contribute to her getting away with it for so long.

But it's not really stereotyping as much as going with what is statistically most likely. She's more interesting than male killers because she's such an anomaly.

I'm pretty sure incompetence in the management team played a part.
Why they dismissed concerns raised by parents and staff will be something they'll have to explain at any enquiry.
Everything is is just speculation.

Also, similar to Harold Shipman she picked victims who were medically compromised or closer to death so it raised fewer suspicious.

If she'd been working in a minor injury unit and killing kids there it obviously would have been picked up much quicker.

Not everything comes down to gender and race, and to reduce this case to a gender/race argument is actually quite insulting to the situation.

She got away with it for so long but it's such an incredibly unusual crime, not something that would be suspected until there was such a lot of unequivocal evidence. She was able to continue for so long because she was working as a medical professional, the perfect cover story for murdering victims who were already medically vulnerable.

See also, Harold Shipman, who got away with his crimes for so long, not because he was male (contradicting the "Letby is female" theory) but because he was a doctor, murdering patients.

I read an article (sorry cannot remember where) that stated something like 90% of all known serial killers have been white. So therefore Letby being white did not enable her to continue for longer, as her race fitted the likely racial profile of a serial killer.

I can’t help feeling that there was a certain tribalism at play in this case. It seems to me that there was a strong degree of doctors v nurses, and a resentment towards doctors amongst nurses both on the ward and on the senior management team.

I think lots of things contributed to the Trust’s delay in suspecting Letby of doing the “unimaginable”. Not least that she had worked in CoC neonatal unit for several years before qualifying to work in Nursery 1, the intensive care part of the unit. She was one of them, part of the team, the sudden spike in deaths was a new thing (as far as we/they know, although investigations are ongoing into past babies Letby nursed). She was a trusted, reliable colleague and friend, who happily covered shifts at short notice.

As a nurse for 35 years, although I worked with some very strange and difficult people at times, I’d struggle to believe any of them would or could do anything as terrible as deliberately harm or kill their adult patients, never mind the tiniest most vulnerable newborns. It’s so abnormal and inhuman, no wonder managers (whom I’m not excusing) couldn’t bring themselves to believe it.

I don’t think it was anything to do with race. I think it was because she seemed so ‘nice’ and ‘friendly’ I get sick of these racist comments all the time.

No I disagree I think it went on for so long as they unit was understaffed and overstretched , management were not doing their jobs properly and that plus the chaotic environment meant that anyone regardless of colour or gender would have seen the opportunity

YABU

Not talking about this case specifically but society in general has a massive bias towards blonde females being innocent and always in the right. I remember the most horrible, bullying little blonde girl in my dcs class and all the parents and teachers totally oblivious because she's "so sweet".

Acknowledging white privilege is not racist.

I'm in full possession of a grip.
I also don't appreciate your racist-misogyny.

@Ihonestlydontgetit completely agree

What did I say that was racist or misogynistic?

I'm a white woman by the way.

It's not my fault you don't understand the concept of inherent bias.

An obvious counter-argument to sex is Harold Shipman - male, of middle-aged, unprepossessing appearance at the time of his crimes, and remained active for much longer than Letby.

I don't know of any non-white HCP killers to compare from a race perspective.

Ummm, literally anything?

OK so for an imaginary or hypothetical scenario, how about... a "male non-white" nurse at a hospital in - hmm let's say Stockport, just at random - who contaminates saline with insulin; some of which patients die. But they're elderly patients not babies. A white female nurse is arrested - but the incidents keep happening. I can imagine that.

Oh sorry - remember, not imagine. I can remember a case where a "male non-white" nurse didn't get "called out" until after at least 22 incidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Stepping_Hill_Hospital_poisoning_incident

Harold Shipman got away with murdering patients for longer

*unconscious bias I should have added

If she were a WOC, absolutely. Ridiculous and awful but true. Mmm

Being how society respects men more, and how the NHS promotes male nurses at a highe rate, I imagine if she were male it would have gone on even longer.

I think it is racist/misogynist to say that LL got away with it because she was a white women.
I absolutely understand bias, I just don't think it was a factor in this case.

And you being a white woman too doesn't mean you can't be racist/misogynist against white women. It's called internalisation e.g. my mum is very sexist against women, despite being a woman. I have a gay friend who is against same-sex marriage and puts it down to his own internalised homophobia. It happens.

I had never even heard of the Victorino Chua case! Looking about for cases, it seems much more common than I would have ever expected, the deliberate harm/death by meducal professionals. I imagine they get away with it because we are conditioned to believe these are people who would only help. I am sure bias comes into play, but, personally, I think the biggest bias is simply towards the idea that medics help, not hurt. It is clearly not always true, but we always believe it is until we witness deliberate pain and cruelty by a doctor or nurse.

I would never have believed I'd watch a woman scream as an inch deep chunk of arm is removed by scalpel with no pain relief at all, while a doctor explains 'your a junkie, get used to hurting', before I saw and heard it myself. All caring professions have vindictive, evil monsters in their ranks, we just struggle to believe it until it's impossible to disbelieve.

You can't evidence or cite an imaginary scenario for God's sake 😁it sounds like you meant to say "OP I disagree because in this other, similar case this happened".

But instead you asked for evidence of a hypothetical. Fleshing out a hypothetical scenario also is not a citation or evidence.

You need to use your words correctly in order to avoid coming across as passive aggressive and unable to make a clear point.