To think being female and white is what meant Lucy Letby could continue her crimes?

[sociallyanxiouspartone]

Let's face it, the reality is as women we are often disadvantaged but being a woman in this case is what meant Lucy went under the radar for so long and the fact she was white combined with this and looked like the 'girl next door' is what meant more babies lost their lives than needed to.

Just imagine, a male non white nurse was in the same position he would have been called out much much earlier

Let's hope this helps people think about how harmful stereotyping can actually be.

Sorry to all the families that lost babies in all of this 💐

Well, I do think a real life example of the exact scenario the OP was asking me to imagine was salient. I can't really understand your point. Unless you just fancy an argument.

We had the same in Ireland with a black employee who was sexually abusing female patients in a nursing home. Their complaints were dismissed as a combination of dementia and old white people being racist. These stories are common in all multiethnic western cultures. Happens in the US all the time for example.

Let's just leave it at you can't understand and move on then

I don’t think it’s just being female and white, it’s the whole package:

young, attractive, everyone said she was “nice” and came across as quite bland, nothing to make her stand out.

if she had been female and white and showed other tendencies or personality traits I think she would have been called out a lot sooner.

I don’t think it’s her skin colour or gender alone.

im also not sure a male nurse would have been called out sooner - there was that famous case that’s been made into a film where a male nurse was simply moved around hospitals when suspicions arose from other staff, no real investigation was done until a colleague of his helped get him busted.

Yes I agree. But then the amount my blonde haired, blue eyed niece gets away with in any setting as she looks angelic always surprises me.

Only if you ignore the fact that more than one consultant "continually raised the alarm"; at least one of whom was white.

It is entirely possible for the system to be inherently racist, and for someone to get away with crimes undetected. Those two things don't have to be connected.

Thanks for demonstrating "passive aggressive", that's a lovely example!

It's a fair and correct point. Its all a bit "does she look like a typical witch". Same with Ted Bundy. And why public feeling was so against Luke Mitchell from the very start of his involvement in the Jodi Jones case.

I think the public would have been less split about her innocence if she were ugly, came across as being less sweet or there were stories about her being horrid.

Basically, something the public could use to "other" her.

😆that's not passive aggressive. It's acknowledging you don't understand the original point, will not agree and there's no point going back and forth.

But ask yourself WHY were the concerns that were raised early on ignored?

And yes, the hospital managers need to be held to account.

I think being a white female is undoubtedly part of it. Also young, slim, blandly pretty, quiet, apparently non-threatening.

All the unconscious biases of the people around her played into it. But let’s be real - she’s a psycho. Most people of whatever sex, race or whatever don’t murder babies. The parents of those poor children wouldn’t have expected in their worst nightmares ANY nurse to behave like this. Their only ‘bias’ was believing nurses care for babies.

But several of her colleagues DID raise concerns about her. So she certainly wasn’t pulling the wool over all eyes.

Those managers already said "lessons have been learnt" which is the get out of jail free card for all public servants when they are incompetent. I'd like to see them imprisoned for manslaughter or aiding and abetting or some such.

She looks like a nice middle class blonde girl from the Home Counties . Not threatening..Except she was every mother's nightmare....

I don't think it's to do with race, after all they were quick enough to put Rebecca Leighton away for a crime she didn't commit. In the case of places like Rotherham, men who should have been prosecuted weren't prosecuted for fear of being seen as racist to non whites. I suspect it's more to do with the fact that it is a rare crime that the hospital struggled to believe it was happening at all.

I wonder if it's the opposite, more similar to Rotherham, where perceived privilege meant allegations against the less privileged group were seen as targeting.

Can't cause Asian men of grooming - that's racist...

Can't believe these consultants, with all the power are picking on a young nurse, that's bullying....

I've noticed throughout my dcs schooling that the blonde girls in the class get away with so much bad behaviour because they're seen as blonde and angelic.

Two of them are retired so are untouchable unless the police and CPS go after them.

The police are institutionally racist, they have no qualms about arresting Asian men.

The race of the groomers and rapists gave them a handy excuse for the fact that the police didn’t give a shit about the victims because they weren’t middle class.

Zholia Alemi was able to get away with being a fake psychiatrist for decades. She practiced medicine without a license and defrauded some of her patients. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that her crimes were on the same level as Lucy Letby's, but I don't necessarily believe Letby would have been detected more quickly had she been, say, Iranian or Chinese or Indian. I really don't think there is enough evidence to make that claim. Most serial killers in the UK are white anyway and I struggle to think of any who aren't.

In my experience of managing and performance managing nurses over 15 years, male nurses are way more likely to get away with stuff.

My colleagues and I often comment on it, it's really difficult to get anything done aboit poorly performing male nurses and they climb the ladder WAY more quickly with less experience than female nurses.

The Rotherham thing wasn't about the race of the abusers, it was about the perceived status of the victims.

I don't agree with you.We have a reverence for doctors and nurses that often borders on believing them to be divine. How many times are nurses called angels? What people don't want to believe is that any medical professional would actually do any harm, it doesn't fit the general idea of doctors/nurses wanting only to save lives. Harold Shipman got away with it for ages , he was a lovely caring doctor according to most. There are countless doctors who have killed ,but we continue to generally think they are beyond reproach.

Not the point at all, but why the Home Counties? She was from Hereford.