Pretty people have such an advantage in life?

[ddisgruntled]

Honestly I think being not conventionally attractive means you have to work harder (at times quite a bit harder) than pretty people to be afforded the same things they get for free? Things like people attributing 'good' intentions to whatever they're doing, and are more eager to be helpful to pretty people, and others are more willing to gloss over their mistakes and flaws.

Of course we are all flawed, and all humans make mistakes, but I think attractive people have a much easier time with this being recognised. I'm nearly 40 so this isn't just observing the social dynamics of youngsters! It's everywhere, at every age.

It's subtle. I'm not ugly, just kind of bland and nondescript I'm very basic at grooming (washed and clean, but no point doing make up or hair as I'm shit at it and doesn't make any difference) and so don't really think about looks generally in day to day life - but then sometimes it hits me how it's like starting out a couple of steps behind a good looking person, in every new interaction?

Yes what an odd comment. In my circle no one would ever “say something bad” about anyone or people would rightly think you were an unpleasant person. Feeling aggrieved that you can’t slag someone off is extremely weird.

My sister (we are very close) is a gorgeous lesbian and she has said it has caused her no end of issues in relationships and friendships.
Lesbian women from her circles befriend her, and often then try to seduce her subtly; when this fails, it causes weird vibes and tensions where they are still friends with her, but still carry some resentment and what appears to be disguised hostility.

Similar to straight guys who are “friend-zoned”, yet are still lingering and waiting for a chink in the armour to pounce.
Yet it is very different because it carries an all female rivalry which does not exist with straight male friends.

Neither of us quite understands, can someone here with better knowledge explain? My sister is now considering not having lesbian women as friends anymore as it’s just caused too much hassle in the past. She prefers the company of women and is quite sad about this.

Yes, I've parted company with people who find it to be an entertainment to slag people off and tedious when I don't like joining in. It sets a bad tone in a relationship. I always think they must be saying dreadful things about me when I'm not around if that's their mentality!

I’d say something “bad” about someone who - for instance - was nasty. I find it odd that one isn’t “allowed” to speak the truth. And I find it interesting that women think there is some imaginary medal in heaven for not saying “bad” words.

I often wonder how Lady Diana would have aged had she lived longer.

Ah right. What I actually meant was when someone on Twitter points out that one of the women on The Apprentice (for example) is a tiny bit annoying and every single comment afterwards says “you’re just jealous cos she’s pretty”. Not that Twitter isn’t a hellhole that should be avoided at all costs, and not that it’s okay to slag anyone off, but my point was that it’s ridiculous that the assumption is that you cannot feel negatively about anyone without being jealous of their attractiveness.

But I forgot to say that, so the assumption that all my friends rightly hate me because I’m always slagging them off is fair enough really!

I don’t look in the mirror and see anything special, but I must be what men find attractive. I don’t know if it’s helped me at all because I don’t know anything else but it has caused issues with female friends because their husbands always end up fancying me 😡. I know this because they feel the need to tell me when they’re drunk 😡😡. I get that this would be very annoying to other women but it’s really not my fault, I didn’t do anything to encourage men and I’ve certainly never stolen anyone else’s husband. I have one of my own and that’s more than enough! We have lost friendships over it and been bullied by other women to make themselves feel better.

Yes, if someone did or said something that really upset me, I’d like to think I was allowed to mention it to someone else without that making me an unpleasant person. I wouldn’t have a massive bitch-fest about it with everyone else I knew - which, in retrospect, is what my post must have suggested - but I find the idea that no-one ever says a single negative thing about anyone else - even if it’s just to check they aren’t being over-sensitive or unreasonable to be upset - a bit odd too.

@TheaBrandt
Your poor dd
I can see how that can happen
I hope she understood that it came from a place of insecurity from the teacher.
It took me a long time to figure this out and would often go out of my way to not only dumb down but dress down to fit in and avoid jealousy ( lol seems daft now)

Well with hindsight I was very pretty when I was younger - men used to ask me out but I’d say No - my father was very abusive and I had no value of myself at all.
I was scared of men and didn’t know how to communicate with them.
I have had relationships with two abusive men. I also struggled with the attention from men and used avoidance for most of my adult life. I still grieve the loss of my childhood/youth.
I think having a good internal value trumps looks really.

Siameasy
My friend is noticeably pretty and a few of us were out. A man saw fit to tell her that she wasn’t all that. I was shocked and she said this happens to her quite a lot. I thought it might be because said ape felt insecure and annoyed by her.

I hope she laughed in his face !!!!!

I remember years ago some male called me fat ( I so wasn't)
I laughed in his face.

People really forget that it’s a double edged sword. My DD is a million times more vulnerable because of how naturally stunning she is. In her teen years she was constantly bullied for being “up herself” and “attention seeking”, she was in reality very insecure and in therapy for much of it. In her twenties she is often dismissed as being thick and a bimbo- also wrong- she has a degree and a job helping others. Men think she is easy because she is slim with large boobs and think disgusting comments are warranted and desired. I’ve got into countless arguments over the years because of comments she’s received.
I agree pretty privilege is a thing but all the free drinks and free entry to clubs does not make up for the shit. I’m distinctly average looking and it’s much easier!

I agree @Motheranddaughtertotwo
I've just name changed to post but I've posted about this more than once.

I used to be a hair and beauty model (face, make up), for a while anyway. I got lots of male attention and can honestly say I dislike the male gaze, particularly, and that they still think they have some right to comment on my physical appearance. I've had trouble with stalkers also (the outing part) one very recently. And I'm nearly 40, when I thought this would stop.

There has also been jealousy, some of it quite horrible, from women (as a teenager I found out later that I wasn't invited to things in case their boyfriend looked at me - one example from a girl at university). Though I think, to be fair, I've developed a natural aloof air to make myself more unapproachable.

Having to prove you're clever because many people think you're not just based on appearance. It's easy enough to correct, but eye opening.

I read once that perceptions of intelligence based on appearance are more to do with neoteny than beauty ie if you have features we associated with babies and kids (round face, big eyes etc) you will be taken less seriously. There’s obviously overlap but it’s definitely possible to have a “young” face without being conventionally attractive.

I agree pretty privilege is a thing but all the free drinks and free entry to clubs does not make up for the shit.

The thing is though it’s not about the free stuff and the perks, it’s about society telling you that your worth as a woman inheres in your looks and the consequent feeling you have that if you’re not pretty you are therefore worthless. What’s that quote from Jane Eyre about an ugly woman being a blot on the fair face of creation? We’ve moved on a bit since then, thank goodness, but not enough.

I don't know... I'm enjoying not being sexually harassed anymore as I age. Also everyone is generally more pleasant. I encountered more bitchiness when I was in my “prime" from women and harrassment from men.

You cut out all of the very relevant content of this post.

Do you think being harassed by men, avoided by women and under-estimated by both has made this young woman feel more valued by society?

You’re absolutely right - I completely ignored the main point of that post. Apologies to you and to @Motheranddaughtertotwo.

I wish we could all, as women, have a ready response to this kind of arrogance (in this instance, a man telling a woman, presumably someone he didn't actually know), that she isn't attractive/good looking.

it doesn't need to be 'clever', or confrontational, but something that shows the man our steely inner resolve and self-belief, that their opinion means absolutely nothing to us - maybe a wide smile and something dismissive along the lines of "well, I know I'm good looking and that's all that counts". Something to take the wind out of their sails. Those kind of blokes have a really fragile ego.

maybe it takes years of building self esteem and inner confidence to pull that off, especially if it's on the spur of the moment, but I'd absolutely say that to any random bloke now and keep a steady gaze, enjoying every moment. It really is the only way to deal with that kind of misogyny - show them they really don't matter and that we don't need to rely on their approval, attention or unwanted opinion to be whole.

@daisychain01 I do like “thanks random man!” said with a smile.

I am convinced that too many men think all womankind was out here for them to look at and that even complete strangers have an obligation to look good for them.

Absolutely @AliceOlive and if only as women we can all believe that we really aren't put on earth as their plaything or for them to critique, that would change things for the better. I'm still working on something for "smile, it may never happen" - probably something like "is that really the best you can come up with?"

Love the "thank you random man" said with a breezy nonchalant smile.

@ddisgruntled your thread title needs to be "Smart women have the advantage in life". Looks may change through life (and not always for the worst I would say), but being 'quick on your feet', able to out-smart misogyny is a far greater asset a woman can have. A woman who does a good line in withering looks and a witty one-liner is set up for life.

Possibly, but they still have to actually be able to do the job. I had a manager who was attractive and personable and very good at talking her way into a promotion. Unfortunately it got to the point where she simply couldn't understand the work she was being asked to do and had to leave the organisation.

I wonder whether there would be any disagreement in that thread. Clever kids are at best teased and at worst bullied at school, and even as an adult I’m not convinced that being clever necessarily wins you friends or makes you happier. Does every advantage in life have a possible downside?

I agree with the comment that pretty can attract more players and cheaters. It's funny when people say, "So-and-so model or actress got cheated on, even SHE could get cheated on, what hope is there for the rest of us?" When in reality, we shouldn't be that shocked that men who place such a premium on looks would have a wandering eye.

But yes, I think many women whose looks have varied throughout their lifetime, or even just day to day, have seen how differently they were treated in superficial encounters (at the store, etc.). It's a shame. I don't think that holds as much for deeper connections, like friends, people you see every day, etc.

We can make an effort to not fall into the trap, ourselves, of being nicer to or showing more respect to people who happen to be conventionally attractive. Be the change you want to see, as they say.