What are all pensioners getting another £300 this winter??

[F0RBIDDENFRUIT]

They are amongst the richest people in the country, yes there are poor pensioners but a lot of them are way richer than anyone else.

£300 more for energy, none of the old people I know need this, they all have more money than their children.

Just because they vote, that is the only reason they can be doing this.

Another day, another disingenuous ageist clickbait thread by first time poster. Don’t bite people

How many on here refused the £64 ish a month energy rebate last year? That everyone got no means testing about it. If you didn't need it to pay your fuel bill as you are comfortable and according to a lot on here they all earn 100k+ so shouldn't have needed that rebate, why did you accept it? Or did you all donate it to a food bank or fuel poverty charity who could help those that do need it?

They are amongst the richest people in the country, yes there are poor pensioners but a lot of them are way richer than anyone else.

This really isn't true. Most female old-age pensioners live in poverty, and they don't exactly have the option of trying to pick up [more] work.

My dad gives it to me. He gets more in pension than I do working and he says I need it more than him

If we are making sweeping generalisations and being ignorant maybe worth pointing out that millions of children sadly live in poverty- their parents should not keep having them when they can't afford them. Before anyone says yes for some circumstances change but not for many. Or we can accept that across all groups of society it's awful anyone lives in poverty, and all groups have different policies and payments to help address this.

My elderly father pays £600 council rent per month for a 1 bedroom flat and receives a state pension - no private pension / savings. He has to do odd jobs to live. Do you begrudge him the payment, OP?

Because there isn’t the money for everyone? So let’s give it to the most deserving?

The "means testing being more expensive" gets trotted out by the usual people who clearly have no clue how it actually works.

When you are dealing with billions of £££ (Universal pensioner benefits), means testing is NOT more expensive.

When you are dealing with something less than £1bn (for example universal school meals vs means testing meals) then the argument holds water.

Child benefits are the same. They cost many £Billions, so means testing will be cheaper in the aggregate sense.

No but why doesn’t he have a private pension out of interest?

Means testing doesn’t cost more than it saves - that’s why working age benefits are means tested

Some working age benefits aren't. PIP and contribution based ESA.

The working age benefits that are means tested pay out a hell of a lot more than £300 per year, so it is cost effective to means test them. You are comparing apples with oranges.

It’s really simple
1 - it’s cheaper to give it to everyone than means test it. So unless you are a begrudger who would rather pay more tax to cover the means testing than have someone get what you don’t it doesn’t make sense to means test it.
2 - Contrary to your belief the majority of older people (over 65) are not better off than the rest of the people in the country. There are plenty (if not a majority) of older people living in council and private rented accommodation barely scraping by (same as for other ages!)

Wow, I had no idea that was allowed. I think that's awful.

Firstly, a huge number of them are NOT the richest people in the country, Those without any other money live on £203 a week. How would you manage on that?

Secondly, a lot of those who are better off on paper, have no extra money, they own the house they are living in. And unless you want them all to catch their deaths, they need to stay warm.

Most working age people can work more hours or look for a second job. Or take on a short term loan. Someone in their 80s doesn't have either option.

And if giving them some support with utilities keeps them away from the NHS and avoids pneumonia, then it's good value.

Did you not bother to read the thread?

Means testing doesn’t cost more than it saves- hence why working age benefits are means tested.

state pensions alone (excluding other benefits pensioners get) cost over £100billion a year. About 10% of all government spending. One fifth of pensioners are millionaires.

ita simply unfair that there is no means testing for pensioner benefits when there are for those for working age people. Pensioners also pay less tax than working age people.

🙌🏻

Again,

Did you not bother to read the thread?

It also depends on the current systems in place because the means testing of child benefit is basically done through income tax self assessment so it is not as costly as it might be to set up a new system. Of course the costs is also relative to the saving which is much higher on child benefit than it would be on winter fuel payments for example.

I don’t begrudge pensioners getting winter fuel allowances.

If you can be arsed to means test it then temperature test it too:

• are you skinny? Extra £300 to compensate for lack of insulation
• do you live in Scotland or the North of England? Extra £1000
• do you have sensory needs whereby woolly things make you feel weird? Extra £100

etc.

It's just a sop to the rich generally, a political bribe.

Taking money from the productive (who are basically getting taxed to exhaustion) and giving it to the non productive. It actually gives money to the richest subsection of society and therefore for an untargetting/non means tested measure it is the worst way of getting money to those who actually need it. You could give money to practically any other demographic and be confident it would reach more poor people than this.

The good news is that at some point this will end, because it just isn't possible to continually milk productivity. At some point this strategy will collapse (if it hasn't already) and the countries finances with it.

It's the same with unearned income. CGT needs to normalise with income tax, but it is not being done.

Funny they can means test child benefit then and penalise those who meet the threshold which hasn’t risen in years…

@Jamtartforme 'No but why doesn’t he have a private pension out of interest?'

Because companies did not have to offer a workplace pension until 2018. Many pensioners have only their state pension. In the 50s, 60s and 70s it was pitched as all you would need. Most 'boomers' do not have a defined benefit pension or even know anyone who has. They were the preserve of the senior Civil Service and blue chip companies like IBM.

And in those decades there was such a lot of poverty that the chance to save anything didn't present itself to many.

I was a new pensioner and got it for the first time last year and was very grateful for it as I was particularly hard up at that time. This year I am better off so may well give half to charity.

I have a relative who has a large pension and he always gives his winter fuel payment to charity.

Lots of working age people can’t work any more yet their benefits are means tested. They are the richest demographic yet only one with benefits that are not means tested. And they pay less in taxes.

if a particular pensioner is in fact not wealthy, that’s not an argument against means testing as they would get the benefits anyway. That some are not wealthy is no reason to give others who are extremely wealthy government funds.

Tricky one because the pensioners I know gave their £300 to their adult children and families who needed it more. (The pensioners in my scenario both had NMW wage PT jobs, late 70s, 2 bed terraces, living in the North)

Some pensioners have a nice pension, some still work and some are poor.

But I guess the government can't work out who needs it and who doesn't because that too would cost time and money.