ExH undermining me with Brownies and theres nothing I can do

[TheBrowniesFundraiserforHoliday]

DD is 9 and a Brownie.

Going on pack holiday at October Half Term for 5 nights (Friday to Thursday).

She was supposed to fundraise for it over the summer holidays, they literally needed to raise £20 each, the rest was being topped up by parents (and there are funds for those who may not be able to find the extra £30 to go)

She has refused to fundraise. A friend of mine asked her (with my supervision) to feed her cats twice a day and would pay her £5 she didn’t do it, so I did it. My parents offered for her to walk their dog while they were working and they’d give her £10. That’s £15 before she’s tried to do anything else.

DDs Sixer suggested their six get together in the summer and run a book stall at the local supermarket to raise funds, they had 140 books, they could have sold them for £1 each and raised the money easily. Her friends took part but she wouldn’t, I offered to stay and supervise and Brown Owl also did an hour with them and DD refused. They sold all 140 books and made £100, which is nearly all the money for all of the places in the 6.

Any suggestion to do it is met with “Well I want to go but won’t be making the money myself for it”. She’s been rude to me telling me I will give her the money and she will be going.

I said no, you won’t be going as you’ve not worked for it. There’s still time between now and the deadline to make the money though.

DD has spent the week at ExHs and come home today.

She’s just told me that not only is she going on pack holiday but dad is going to say she helped to weed the garden for it. She didn’t she’s boasted about not doing it.

The Friday they go falls on his weekend so I can’t even stop her, and because of the way holiday contact falls he’d have had her until the Wednesday anyway, so I’d be pulling her out for effectively 15 hours (handover is 6pm on the Wednesday and they get picked up by us 10am Thursday).

I don’t know how to go forward with this. Do I talk to Brown Owl? Or just leave it?

For context; if she’d raised say £10 or £15 and was very close I’d of course have given her the extra money, it’s the fact she’s done nothing and will still get to go.

I pay for Brownies, and its in the week which during Term Time ExH doesn’t see her in the week. He has her 1 night a month in Term Time and 50% in the school holidays.

That is not what happens if a child withdraws from brownies? You make it seem like someone has suggested the op stand in the small town square with a megaphone during rush hour and list everything naughty her child has ever done and all her faults. What would actually happen is the brownie would say to the other girls oh X can’t actually attend brownies anymore.

I’d be having one last word with him. Tell him that if he doesn’t back you up on this then you won’t back him up on anything. If he still continues to allow her to go, then I’d be passing on the details of when and where her Brownies is held and let him know that it’s up to him to get all the information for the trip. Remind him that because she’s away during his time then you expect him to pick her up after the trip and have her for the rest of the half term holidays. Do not support him with anything for the trip. Is she needs a pair of wellies or walking boots, then he’d better go and buy a pair (if he hasn’t got any already).

Just think for a minute how that will end. Devastated child, humiliated and shamed, awkwardness for leaders, gossip for all the other parents at dirty laundry aired in public, sounds like a total nightmare, and that's before you even get onto the damage caused to the mother daughter relationship and co parent relationship.

Think you are dramatising a bit there. How on earth would any of the other parents have a clue? And given brownie values I'd expect supper rather than awkwardness from brown owl. Re the relationships both are a hill I'd be willing to die on - very poor attitude and defiance from dd and complete lack of support from ex that can set a precedent.

I'd give your daughter a choice -

Earn the money and go

Dont earn the money and go (with the consequence that i will no longer pay it facilitate her attending Briwnies on my days with her as she isnt acting in the spirit of the programme)

Dont go if she cant be arsed to earn the money and she will be put on notice that if she doesnt actively start participating in good faith she will be pulled out.

All the stuff about volunteers not being paid to take in family angst.
i would have been more than happy to put something into my program to reinforce the point that cheats dont prosper. Its a valid learning experience and very much a part of the ethos of the Guiding movement that all the young people attending could potentially benefit from.
It takes a village to raise a child don't forget. Brown Owl is part of that village.

Don't take your DD out of brownies OP.

She's 9. Her bad behaviour has come from him. Would be unfair to punish her for his fuckery.

He's doing it to wind you up.

Stop being so amenable to him in future.

Thanks for thoughts everyone, I have emailed Brown Owl but I am not taking DD out.

We've discussed it, but are not doing anything until the first meeting back which isn't until middle of September. Until then I'm going to try and get DD to tell me why she didn't want to fundraise and continue to give her the chance to do so.

Do you have issues with her doing chores when she's in your care?

Hi Op. Having read what various Brown Owls have said, I think you made the right decision. Brownies is something she really enjoys and has a very positive influence on her and something so positive is worth keeping.

It sounds very challenging given your co-parenting situation but it sounds like keeping the conversation open and talking to her and getting her to articulate why she does things, what result she wants/expects from it, is a good long-term plan anyway. You've certainly had a lot to think about because of this situation and that will probably help find a way forward.

Good plan, OP.
Does she have any particular mates at Brownies? Can they help provide positive peer pressure to counter Disney Dad's negative world view.

@senua She does, but agirl the same age as her at a different school (started both Rainbows and Brownies together) and she's quite close to her Sixer.

You might find that the others in her Six give her more of a guilt trip over refusing to fundraise - and it might be more effective, than anything we adults could do. Especially if she looks up to her Sixer, she might respond to having let her down (all of this being without any adult prompting, if they feel aggrieved then it might come out at some point).

Sounds like you are being undermined by the ex.
Line up some jobs for when DD gets home from her Pack Holiday. A chart on the wall for jobs done, not cash. When she has done a certain number of chores her debt for Brownie fundraising can be "paid off". Then she can earn herself treats.
It does depend on her cooperation but it worked wonders with my children. No jobs, no treats.

Sort of update

DD has told me the reason she didn't want to fundraise. She says she likes that Brownies is easy and she doesn't have to work for it like at school (she struggles a lot at school tbf) and she just didn't want to.

Told her if she'd told me that to start with I'd have happily given her the money, Brown Owl doesn't care that she hasn't fundraised but she didn't want DD or any girl to lie about how they got the money.

She's agreed to do some extra housework to make up for the lies and has said she'll sacrifice pocket money to pay the rest. She's also said she will tell the truth to Brown Owl and the other girls at Brownies if asked how she got the money.

This all came out while doing an interest badge for Brownies, we were just relaxed and chatting and I asked her why she didn't want to and she told me. She got a bit upset telling me as she didn't want to let me down.

I'm happy she's not going to lie and will hold her to that. Will also email Brown Owl with the update.

oh thanks, that's good it has resolved and she was open about her feelings

I can understand why she didn't want people to know that.

I can emphasise with that. Glad she’s seen that she’s wrong to lie if asked how she got the money together. Hopefully she has a great time on trip and in future maybe she can come up with some fundraising ideas in the future that she would find fun/interesting.

That's a very understandable rationale. I'm glad she opened up to you. If she's struggling at school then having the benefit of Brownies being 'easy' is all the better for her to be involved in.

I am so glad you spoke with her and she opened up.

My Mom and I had an unholy battle about undergarments when I was a child. She wanted me to wear a slip under my uniform and I wanted to wear shorts. She never asked me why. (I won.)

As an adult I explained to her that when I played on the playground, I didn't want anyone to see my slip or underpants. The shorts were for modesty. She probably should have worked that out on her own or at least asked me why, but we are just from very different generations.

Kids do usually have reasons for things. You are a good mother.

Oh what a good outcome! I totally sympathise with your daughter. That kind of thing would have spoiled it for me too.

A bit like school visits to museums, farms etc were partially spoilt for me by having to do a worksheet, IYSWIM.

@ImNotWorthy It makes perfect sense especially now I've chatted to her, it was a kind of oopsie moment for me because I know how much she struggles with school.

That's a result.
I hope your DD is able to enjoy the trip now.

I can understand why she feels that way and would probably felt the same about extracurriculars being hard work, but "I will be going and you will be giving me the money" is still staggeringly rude and entitled. I personally couldn't reward her after she had said that, but I think you at least need to keep a close eye on that attitude going forward.

@aSofaNearYou I think it's the age though, from chatting to friends with similar aged girls they use manipulation as persuation. They're still learning.

But you're right I do need to bring that up with her.