ExH undermining me with Brownies and theres nothing I can do

[TheBrowniesFundraiserforHoliday]

DD is 9 and a Brownie.

Going on pack holiday at October Half Term for 5 nights (Friday to Thursday).

She was supposed to fundraise for it over the summer holidays, they literally needed to raise £20 each, the rest was being topped up by parents (and there are funds for those who may not be able to find the extra £30 to go)

She has refused to fundraise. A friend of mine asked her (with my supervision) to feed her cats twice a day and would pay her £5 she didn’t do it, so I did it. My parents offered for her to walk their dog while they were working and they’d give her £10. That’s £15 before she’s tried to do anything else.

DDs Sixer suggested their six get together in the summer and run a book stall at the local supermarket to raise funds, they had 140 books, they could have sold them for £1 each and raised the money easily. Her friends took part but she wouldn’t, I offered to stay and supervise and Brown Owl also did an hour with them and DD refused. They sold all 140 books and made £100, which is nearly all the money for all of the places in the 6.

Any suggestion to do it is met with “Well I want to go but won’t be making the money myself for it”. She’s been rude to me telling me I will give her the money and she will be going.

I said no, you won’t be going as you’ve not worked for it. There’s still time between now and the deadline to make the money though.

DD has spent the week at ExHs and come home today.

She’s just told me that not only is she going on pack holiday but dad is going to say she helped to weed the garden for it. She didn’t she’s boasted about not doing it.

The Friday they go falls on his weekend so I can’t even stop her, and because of the way holiday contact falls he’d have had her until the Wednesday anyway, so I’d be pulling her out for effectively 15 hours (handover is 6pm on the Wednesday and they get picked up by us 10am Thursday).

I don’t know how to go forward with this. Do I talk to Brown Owl? Or just leave it?

For context; if she’d raised say £10 or £15 and was very close I’d of course have given her the extra money, it’s the fact she’s done nothing and will still get to go.

I pay for Brownies, and its in the week which during Term Time ExH doesn’t see her in the week. He has her 1 night a month in Term Time and 50% in the school holidays.

Absolutely this. Spoilt madam!
You are a good mum OP. This isn’t on you.

This is the best idea.
I'd also tell your DD off for assuming that you'd pay.

This has to be handled with great care. Getting into a battle of wills with her isn’t a good idea. Pulling her out is not what the OP wants, and it would just ensure more power struggles to come. This can become a very long game when you have a parent that enables and encourages bad behavior.

I would try to get to the bottom of what’s going on with her. Why she wants to be part of a group whose values include honesty and teamwork, but she doesn’t want to exhibit these traits herself.

I agree totally with everything said here

I would just say you are very disappointed in her and gently talk to her about her attitude. It seems she is picking this up from your ex. I'd address that head on and tell her that if she wants to be part of the brownie group she should raise the money.

Will there be a packing list of things to buy and pack for the trip? Don't do any of this. He's decided to take it on. I'd also suggest he can pay for brownies and take here to and from weekly if he's going to undermine you like this.

I think emailing the leader is a good thing, DD is being dishonest and lazy. 9 is old enough to know those are bad things. I wouldn't pull her out of the Brownies all together, but I would say she will not be going on the trip. If you don't sort it, she will do the same thing over and over. Especially if her dad sees nothing wrong with it.

@BlueMongoose
IIRC brownies make a vow to tell the truth- or has that gone?

Current promise is; "I promise that I will do my best, to be true to myself and develop my beliefs, to serve the King and my community, to help other people and to keep the (Brownie) Guide law."
Current law is;
A Brownie Guide thinks of others before themselves and does a good turn every day.
So not re truth as such, but plenty re doing your best/helping.

It's the Guides who have lots of laws;

1. A Guide is honest, reliable and can be trusted.
2. A Guide is helpful and uses her time and abilities wisely.
3. A Guide faces challenge and learns from her experiences.
4. A Guide is a good friend and a sister to all Guides.
5. A Guide is polite and considerate.
6. A Guide respects all living things and takes care of the world around her.

How much are the subs? Tell her she has to earn that in order to keep going.

I’d tell her she has a week before term starts to do some genuine work to earn £20, and if she doesn’t then you’re pulling her out of Brownies. She can’t then go on the trip if she’s not a brownie.

As a Brownie leader I would be more than happy to remind your DD of the promise she made shortly after joining

I promise that I will do my best: To be true to myself and develop my beliefs, To serve the King and my community, To help other people and To keep the (Brownie) Guide Law.

I would ask her if she thinks she has kept that promise, and then remind her that keeping the promise is very much an important part of Brownies.

Good lord…your exH is setting your daughter up for a lifetime of punishment. What’s she going to be like in a job, if she doesn’t like what she’s been asked to do? Or in a relationship, which is all about working hard and playing your part?

I think it’s the smugness that’s getting to me, OP. If she was just trying to quietly get away with it, fine, loads of kids try to get away with bare minimum but boasting about it…to your mum? That’s a step too far.

I’d tell her that if she doesn't raise the money in the next fortnight, you’ll pull her out of Brownies altogether. Give her one more chance to put it right, in full knowledge of the consequences, and then do it.

Otherwise her teenage years will be a NIGHTMARE.

Well, don't back him up in future.

Totally hate fundraising myself and I would never do it and still don’t and refuse to participate in any such things. So much easier tj just ask the i agents for the cash in the first place without the nonsense charade of fundraising…. So I’m team daughter and DH.

The Brownie law says Brownies should do a good turn (i.e something kind or helpful every day). We explain to our girls this doesn't have to be a big thing, feeding the hamster, playing with a sibling, putting your rubbish in the bin is just as good as doing the whole washing up or cleaning your entire bedroom

Well, she'll not be allowed to get away with doing nothing on Brownie pack holiday. Mine had to make cups of tea, make beds, clean toilets the lot ! I'd leave it.

Don't pull her out of Brownies. But don't involve yourself in any way in preparing clothes, uniform, anything else that she needs for the trip. Leave that up to her and your ex. Tell her how disappointed you are. And tell her you'll be letting Brown Owl know that she didn't raise the funds.

I think the most appropriate outcome would be for Brown Owl to help get her to save face by doing something with Brown Owl’s support so she still gets to go.
Donyou see your husband’s personality I. Your daughter? Could there be any other reason for the refusals E.g. not seeing the point of helping others or anxiety about completing the tasks?

I would pull her out of Brownies. Pointless her going if she's not engaged. Yes she will go on the holiday but you don't have to keep letting her go after that. These activities are pita and why should you if she's not putting in any effort. If she's desperate to go let her dad sort out a new pack on his night. I wouldn't tell her. Just let Brown Owl know and don't pay for next term. If she kicks off just say you can't do it that night anymore, scheduling etc. Don't make a big deal out of it. Don't let her Dad use it as ammo. Sadly you're a bit busy that night. Never mind.

I think no more brownies is the natural consequence here.

I imagine that if you leave it to exh to sort out, he won’t bother to sign any forms and won’t even know any of the logistics so she’ll end up not going anyway.

Don't pull her out of Brownies as she obviously needs to learn more community work!

Do tell the leader what's gone on and don't sort out her stuff for camp. Send the list to her dad and let him sort it.

If you want to pull her out then do it. If you think she is not getting anything out of it then pull her out. I have an 8 year old it's hard to get him to do anything. What would you do with her in its place T.V or play games. She will get bored and you will have to entertain her. Sounds punishing all round.

Maybe there is another option, @TheBrowniesFundraiserforHoliday - could you tell your dd that unless she does the chores/jobs that would have earned her the money for the pack holiday, you will withdraw her from Brownies so she can’t go on the holiday? That way she doesn’t get to benefit from her Disney dad just giving her the money.

He has PR so he can sign any forms that are given to him.

Play the cards that you have. Stop paying for brownies and either ex does it - and takes her , or she doesn’t go. I would definitely knock this crap on the head.