ExH undermining me with Brownies and theres nothing I can do

[TheBrowniesFundraiserforHoliday]

DD is 9 and a Brownie.

Going on pack holiday at October Half Term for 5 nights (Friday to Thursday).

She was supposed to fundraise for it over the summer holidays, they literally needed to raise £20 each, the rest was being topped up by parents (and there are funds for those who may not be able to find the extra £30 to go)

She has refused to fundraise. A friend of mine asked her (with my supervision) to feed her cats twice a day and would pay her £5 she didn’t do it, so I did it. My parents offered for her to walk their dog while they were working and they’d give her £10. That’s £15 before she’s tried to do anything else.

DDs Sixer suggested their six get together in the summer and run a book stall at the local supermarket to raise funds, they had 140 books, they could have sold them for £1 each and raised the money easily. Her friends took part but she wouldn’t, I offered to stay and supervise and Brown Owl also did an hour with them and DD refused. They sold all 140 books and made £100, which is nearly all the money for all of the places in the 6.

Any suggestion to do it is met with “Well I want to go but won’t be making the money myself for it”. She’s been rude to me telling me I will give her the money and she will be going.

I said no, you won’t be going as you’ve not worked for it. There’s still time between now and the deadline to make the money though.

DD has spent the week at ExHs and come home today.

She’s just told me that not only is she going on pack holiday but dad is going to say she helped to weed the garden for it. She didn’t she’s boasted about not doing it.

The Friday they go falls on his weekend so I can’t even stop her, and because of the way holiday contact falls he’d have had her until the Wednesday anyway, so I’d be pulling her out for effectively 15 hours (handover is 6pm on the Wednesday and they get picked up by us 10am Thursday).

I don’t know how to go forward with this. Do I talk to Brown Owl? Or just leave it?

For context; if she’d raised say £10 or £15 and was very close I’d of course have given her the extra money, it’s the fact she’s done nothing and will still get to go.

I pay for Brownies, and its in the week which during Term Time ExH doesn’t see her in the week. He has her 1 night a month in Term Time and 50% in the school holidays.

i should hope she is embarrassed by her actions.

I was wondering this too.

I don't think I've come across Brownie age being asked to fundraise for their pack holiday before if I'm honest. Maybe I'm just soft but it seems a bit much to me and I wouldn't expect every child to manage it

I don't see that it's worth aggro and I wouldn't be branding a 9yo "bad" or "manipulative" over this.

I'd be pulling her out of brownies, and certainly no trip, stern words with ex too.

Why on earth would a volunteer want to do or say that?

I sincerely doubt the "fundraising" component was proposed as some sort of morality test. The leaders were probably just trying to come up with a strategy to make the event more accessible in a cost of living crisis.

i wouldnt do anything apart from tell her you are disappointed, she will be embarrassed when the other brownies are funding raising and she hasnt bothered.
i wouldnt take her out of the trip though

You need to tell Brown Owl but the truth is a lot of kids do what your dd will do, and they won’t have much to say about it.

Me too.

I imagine a lot of kids just get the money from their parents but your DD is actually being smug about being lazy and having no morals. Does she get pocket money? If so I’d be making her do chores for every penny from now on. You can’t stop her Dad encouraging her to be a brat but you can put a stop to it at your house.

Tell the daughter she's better off out of it as its a pseudo-military organisation whose name is a barrier to racialised girls.

If she's not a member of Brownies, she can't go on the trip. So, that IS in your power.
I would tell her you've resigned her membership but don't actually do it (yet). Let her miss the first meeting. Tell her you will re-instate her if she changes her attitude and earns some money before the 2nd meeting.
BUT, your biggest problem isn't this pack holiday, it's the way she speaks to you. I teach this age and you simply cannot allow a 9 year old (or any age) to speak to you in the way you've related here. I get that it's hard with her dad condoning poor behaviour but you have to get this back on a good footing or you're completely fucked when she hits the teen years.

Its difficult stopping a child from going on a trip, its often a long way off and all they remember is how they were stopped from going. I don't think it will solve the problem which is her attitude towards you. Also if she did go, she might find that the other kids who have raised money won't look too kindly on her dodging the chore and that might rub off on her a bit.

Also, you say that she gets a lot of outgoing and enjoys it and it gives you time off too. I think it has more positives for her going to this every week than the negatives. But I think you had a good idea to contact Brown Owl and see if she has any ideas. Maybe prizes for those who have worked the hardest to raise the money would help, with DD having to watch them be praised and rewarded.
Keep talking to her.

However, I would tell DH since he's decided to spend his money facilitating this trip he can pay for Brownies from now on.

Also if she's rude to his parents, I'd let him deal with it and see how difficult it is and then maybe there could be a discussion about how to deal with her rudeness and how his attitude has encouraged it. Perhaps his parents could also have that conversation with him. They must have noticed you having to step in and him thinking its funny.

Me too

I don't really see the big issue really.

Does she work for her pocket money?

I would just give her the money without making her work or beg for it. I wouldn't be pulling her out of Brownies. I don't think I'm a soft parent either. I want my child to have nice experiences without having to plead for them or be eternally grateful. Surely this is what Child Benefit is for.

I would have a problem with being spoken to without respect. I would deal with that separately though.

id be pulling out of brownies this term.

It doesn’t sound like she’s going to raise any money before the deadline so I wouldn’t let her go.
Your dh is allowing her to lie and breeding an entitled little princess. This attitude, if it’s allowed to grow, will cause you so many headaches in the future. Not to mention the sort of person she could turn into.

So, tell Brownies she’s not allowed to go.
Don’t buy anything for the trip.
Don’t prepare anything, it doesn’t sound like she’ll organise herself and pack for herself anyway.

The Friday will come and nothing will be ready.
I wouldn’t make a big deal about it in front of her or your dh. It’s just not happening.

I think her staying in brownies will be more beneficial as hopefully she might learn some of these values over time. However I certainly wouldn't facilitate her going on the camp. Agree with PP who said to hand over everything to ExH for him to sort/organise. I would be making it clear to DD that in your eyes she's not going as she hasn't done was is expected of her to earn it. It's difficult when you have different parenting styles to the child's father but you can still instil your own values. You just need to make it clear to DD what your stance is on things and follow through.

I can understand your perspectives op, but is this worth the battle considering the long term implications ?

Personally I'd let her go, hopefully with the guidance from the group it may help your dd re tune her perspectives.

@TheBrowniesFundraiserforHoliday

Personally I think 9 is a bit young to be expected to do chores to earn money. But I agree her attitude is not good at all especially when the other girls helped with the book selling. Don't know what the solution is.

All of mine did Brownies.
I would absolutely tell her that she is no longer going. As pp you do have the upper hand here. She is playing you off and you need to put an absolute line in the sand.

Tell brown owl what has happened and say she's not going. Pull her out. If dad turns up with her they can't take a random child that doesn't attend.

I wouldn't pull her out.

Speak to Brown Owl and have her speak to your daughter to say she knows she hadn't done tte required fund raising activity, so are can either do something else to make it up, or she misses the trip.

She's 9 that's well old enough to have consequences, and she's sounding like a like Madame who could do with learning a few life lessons of actions and consequences.

It sounds like the child of a narcissist being raised to be a narcissist. I'm not sure what you can do about that but try to give firm emotional boundaries.

I’d speak to Brown Owl and ask if she can speak to your DD at the very least (her father too if she will). Don’t do nothing, imagine how she is going to be in a few years if she’s acting like this now. I find that behaviour pretty awful really for 9yrs old and I’d be furious. I’d be fuming with my ex for undermining me like this. She can go, and her dad can lie, but I’d be letting the brownie leaders know she’s lying and has a really negative attitude to all of this and pretty much doesn’t deserve to go.

Or yes, pull her out. Maybe ask them to hold her space a few weeks to see if she can redeem herself. Otherwise no more brownies

I'd do this.