To be fed up of stupid remarks about childless people

[Beverlysparty]

Just in the last few days on here someone has opined that maybe Lucy letby killed all those little babies because she was 'jealous' of people who had children; someone has stated that as her childless/free friends get older they have become very self absorbed while she hasn't and someone else has made an insulting comment about childless people in hotels.

It's the same in real life; comments about how you don't know real love until you've had children, you don't know what tired is until you've had children, you have all the money in the world for holidays and expensive make up and clothes because you don't have the worry and expense of children.

It's not only insulting it's also deeply inaccurate.

Some shockingly poor comments and attitudes in here from the likes of @Kibris

Ill-informed, offensive rubbish that childfree people have to deal with on a daily basis. If the first thing someone speaks to me about is their kid/s, then they have generally not achieved much in life.

right, well I guess that would explain your comment to begin with. The OP has stated frustration at having people attribute LL's behaviour to being childless. You've come on and commented I do honestly think that unless you have had children then you cannot ever fully understand all the (potential) changes that they bring to your life (good and less good).

It literally has nothing to do with the OP's point. You might as well have said 'Unless you've sat in the rain for 6 hours, you can never fully understand how it can change you life' for all the relevance it has.

There's an underlying mmisogynistic assumption that motherhood is primarily defined by and only properly experienced through super-human sacrifice and deprioritisation. Therefore it is perfectly acceptable, natural even, to come into a space built by and intended for mothers and demand to be accommodated

What on earth are you on about?

This is a thread about the CF experience. MN has said that the site is not just for mothers, and indeed we now have our own board.

I would love to see your examples of the CF coming onto parenting threads and being nasty about mothers and children. The most recent examples have seen posters with kids doing that (I ended up arguing with some mums about how it’s not OK to be tripping kids up!). I ask for examples because I’ve seen this stated a lot recently and yet nobody has been able to evidence it. At best they’ve alluded to comments which turned out to be made by mums, or which were made on the CF board (and not a parenting thread).

Unless of course the inference was that all the "good" changes from being a parent stop people from being serial killers

I don't think it meant that but its the only way I see it being relevant

Well as PP provided no context for the comment, it's left to the imagination

Thanks for your input, I'm still struggling to understand how you think it's irrelevant to the actual topic other than because you disagree with my comment. Let's move on now.

It's not about agreeing with it or not. It's understanding the relevance of it to the thread. How does what you said relate to LL?

And that’s fine. I didn’t actually assert that my experience was ubiquitous; in fact, the point I was making was exactly that. These threads are, very boringly, started all the time with the childfree talking as if society is baying for their blood with pitchforks. It’s hardly the case. So some of you have encountered twatty comments about your decision to not have children? Big deal. Why do you care? Just be happy with what you’ve chosen. And please stop acting as though it’s as hot a topic to everyone else as it is to you.

I care as much about the children you don’t have as you do about the one I do have. I’m not special and nor are you.

Jeez. You could at least spend some of that spare time coming up with something original.

So some of you have encountered twatty comments about your decision to not have children? Big deal. Why do you care?

I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest it might be because countering twatty comments feels a bit shit?

I mean, you could post the same thing on half the threads on AIBU.

No one is talking as if society is bay for their blood with pitchforks. What a stupid comment. But many childless people have to put up with thoughtless, insensitive and often hurtful comments on here and in real life. And of course it makes sense to post it on a site populated by many people with children. That is the demographic that usually makes these comments so that is where it needs to be highlighted. Many many parents are, of course, sensitive and thoughtful in what they say. Many aren't but, when it is brought to their attention in places such as this, take note and try to be more tactful in future. And, of course, a minority don't like it being highlighted and go on the defensive.

I have already answered you. Please, let's move on now.

You haven’t answered me, you said ‘Thanks for your input, I'm still struggling to understand how you think it's irrelevant to the actual topic other than because you disagree with my comment. Let's move on now.’ That’s not answering how what you said is relevant.

I suspect it’s because what a PP said is true, you think it’s a superiority thing with having children and the lack of them that’s led LL to do what she did. Pathetic.

I always remember a particular arsehole saying ‘it makes you less selfish!’ I have never met a more self-absorbed, selfish and thoroughly boring person than her. Shewas so self absorbed it was unreal.

Yeah. I still remember with horror the weekends I worked as a junior doctor. Starting work at 8am on a Friday and finishing at 5 on the Monday, on call the entire weekend, with no protected rest time or breaks, entirely at the mercy of situations outside my control, responsible for life or death decisions, extremely unwell people depending on me to be at the top of my game, irrespective of how tired I was, and responsible to a regulatory body and legal system for everything I did.

I don’t think there’s been any suggestion of pitchforks or witch hunts but if you go through life not wanting to understand or hear the lived experiences of others then you just end up worst case scenario being a bigot and best case an ignorant twat.

I’m not a Muslim, or gay or childless, but I want to know how groups of people feel that experience the world differently to me so I can consciously work towards treating people in the way that they want to be treated.

I think it’s more important to hear about how a section of our society, ‘childless women’ feel discriminated against or experience micro aggressions that can be avoided than hearing about the ethics of putting rubbish in a public bin or what dress is appropriate for a day wedding…

No one is particularly more special or important than anyone else but if everyone thought that their point of view wasn’t important enough to be heard then there would be no forums on here. What in your opinion does rank something important enough to be on here?

You are more than entitled to have an opinion on the originality of a thread. But your post came across as though people shouldn’t bother saying if someone pisses them off or treats them badly because it isn’t new. I just don’t agree with that sentiment. And of all the boring threads I’ve come across today ranging from dining room tables to noise in the garden past midnight…I wouldn’t say that this post is comparatively irrelevant.

I disagree. Before I had my own children my nephews were like my own. It's no different since having my own (though I was told I had to just wait and see as it would be so different and the love I had for my nephews would almost fade to nothingness when I held my own).

And I've suffered from insomnia for years so I knew what bone crushing tiredness was like.

I agree OP. Some people are just pig ignorant.

That's your experience and no-one is knocking it but I suffered from insomnia for years before becoming a parent so even having much more time to sleep it made no difference. I think I was surprised how easy the newborn phase was after being told it was hell because chronic sleep deprivation was my default.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I do think the niece/nephew situation can vary among families - I certainly love my niece and nephew, spent time with them as children and teens, keep in touch now, would have stepped in should their parent been unable to care for them at any point and so on, but for our situation I was certainly not as involved in their lives as I was my own child. Having my own child changed my life in ways that being an aunt never has. Having my child didn't mean I felt any less love for the relatives, more that the day to day organisation of my son's life fell on us whereas the niece/nephew were obviously more dependent on their own parents. The love was/is there for all of them. I also don't think I suggested that being a parent was the only thing which causes tiredness, in fact I clearly stated in a further post that a whole host of things can cause tiredness (sometimes to extreme levels). As for people being 'pig ignorant' while I wouldn't bother adding the word 'pig' we are all a tad ignorant to things we haven't experienced, however that doesn't mean we have to be rude to those who haven't experienced what we have. TBH I hate threads where people are set against each other based on having children or not, being married or not, how often they wash their clothes and so on.

Agree with this - it's the sleep-blessed who come to the situation naively and find that they "didn't know what tired was".

In fact, on top of insomnia, I grew up in a farming community, so am also used to the "all hands on deck, repetitive, mucky, round the clock" work that is caring for livestock.