To be fed up of stupid remarks about childless people

[Beverlysparty]

Just in the last few days on here someone has opined that maybe Lucy letby killed all those little babies because she was 'jealous' of people who had children; someone has stated that as her childless/free friends get older they have become very self absorbed while she hasn't and someone else has made an insulting comment about childless people in hotels.

It's the same in real life; comments about how you don't know real love until you've had children, you don't know what tired is until you've had children, you have all the money in the world for holidays and expensive make up and clothes because you don't have the worry and expense of children.

It's not only insulting it's also deeply inaccurate.

I haven't seen anywhere conflating LL's lack of children to her crimes. She was only in her 20s when she went on her killing spree, and a lot of women don't have children until they are well into their 30s - so are people really saying that every woman pre-children might turn into a child killer, if so that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

That bond is like no other.

Shame my abusive twat of a mother missed that memo 😂

Some people are stupid and insensitive whether they have children or not. Women are judged whether they have children or not.

After years of infertility and IVF, I consider myself extremely fortunate to have two very much longed-for small children. They’re 4 and 8 months old and yes we’re tired - and I’ve never known tiredness like this - but it’s ridiculous to say you can only be this tired if you have children. A good friend of mine has chronic fatigue and has bouts of insomnia - she definitely experiences tiredness greater than mine. As does another friend who has long Covid. She is more tired than me and she does not have children. People who work shift hours get totally and utterly exhausted - my husband being one of them!

The Letby case - it’s hard to say. I know I would have felt a similar level of sadness and anger and shock as I do now post having children. I would say now though, especially one being a baby, there was an extra stab of pain imagining MY child that vulnerable, being hurt. God forbid taken from me. I can barely even type it.

Unless you've lived a life without children you can't possibly know if you were just shit at love before kids, or how hard other people work and therefore how tired they get.

Statements like that just make parents sound thick.

Nonsense. By that logic the love a child free person may feel and show to a severely ill partner or relative for example, and the accompanying exhaustion, is lesser than that felt by an indifferent or uncaring mother who does as little as possible for their child.
I'd imagine most people with children love them more than they love the other people in their lives, but that's about it.

The argument that you don’t know what love is until you’ve had a child really frustrates me because people abuse and even kill their own children, so clearly not every person feels the same way.

The ‘you don’t know love/tiredness/blah blah’ brigade need to pipe down and get on with being a parent, rather than continually shoving it down the throats of everyone else.
Some people would do anything to be a mother, but nature hasn’t made it so. For those people to have to put up with this rubbish spouted day in and day out is awful.

This 100%

I think that's at the heart of it - there's a tone that's adopted in the 'you don't know what it's like' camp quite often (not by everyone).

Of course it's true that lived experience gives people a different perspective. But it doesn't mean you can't put yourselves in those shoes and have a pretty good understanding of what it's like, and be 95% there. And I think people over-estimate the value of that last 5% in a lot of cases.

Eg, a lot of people think things like motherhood makes you more empathetic. But you're looking at a spectrum of levels, so a very empathetic person without kids can still be more empathetic than a normal level empathy mother who's just become marginally more so.

It's just a nonsense to make all the generalisations - these can come across with a real sense of superiority.

I perceive that some people don't love their children. I love my husband very much and I'm not sure everyone gets to experience that so maybe some people think it's a love like no other because their relationships haven't been that good? They invented medications for sleep deprivation for soldiers, not parents.

I think some people have main character syndrome and think their experiences should be the standard by which others measure.

@Bex5490 I think it's a reasonable motive to consider. You can't deny the fact that for some women, their feelings about having children can be overwhelming. There have been a number of horrific cases of women cutting babies out of others wombs with the intent of keeping the babies for themselves.

Both they and LL did it because they're psychopathic or otherwise deeply mentally unwell, no doubt. You have to have the capacity to carry out such heinous acts. And in LL's case the most common theory seems to be that it's actually about having control over others lives, and acting 'God', so nothing to do with jealousy of those who have babies.

But if someone went around stealing and writing off sports cars it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that they might have been motivated by the fact that they are jealous of those who have sports cars when they themselves don't. That doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't have a sports car wants one, and even amongst those who do it would be rare to find an individual whose has the capacity or ill intent to damage those belonging to others. But not having a sports car and wanting one could still be the motive, with the capacity to carry out crime being the enabling factor.

Have you hit the menopause yet? Or been through serious illness? Both made me more tired than my children, or even grandchildren. As for the bond, my childfree eldest has a better bond with her DNs than my abusive mother did with me and many parents I've seen/come across etc.

I perceive that some people don't love their children. I love my husband very much and I'm not sure everyone gets to experience that so maybe some people think it's a love like no other because their relationships haven't been that good?

yes, I think there is definitely some of this.

A neighbour asked me why I don't have kids. I said "it just doesn't look like I'd enjoy it". From her facial expression I could tell she'd never even thought of it as a choice you could just make and avoid a bunch of hard work.

@Bex5490
@ChimneyPotter
@ForestGoblin

Brilliantly put. 100% agree.

You wrote that to upset the op so... Do you have empathy?

I'd worked rotating days and nights shifts for a decade before having DD. I exclusively breastfed and co slept with DD so nights were all on me.

The tiredness of having a baby came close to shift work for brief periods (sleep regressions), but did not carry on for 10 years straight. The worst nights with a newborn were never as bad as the worst nights as a paramedic (think 3 hour late finish on a 12 hour night shift due to an out of area emergency paediatric transfer).

If you've had an easy life of 9-5 then a baby probably does seem tiring, but many many occupations push people far further.

This is really stupid comment - tiredness isn't unique to parents.

@Kibris
"I always find childless people lack empathy."

What utter bollocks!

I have a disability. I know what tiredness is. I don’t have children. Your statements are not facts.

You just haven’t met someone without children who has empathy- doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I can guarantee you they do!

this! I was a full time carer for my Nan who had dementia (whilst also working) and I was exhausted. I stayed awake for several nights as we’d had bad days with her and I wasn’t sure what she’d do, or she’d come in my room in the middle of the night. Long days spent in hospitals, or sitting with her when she was sad and confused, or dealing with issues.

I was exhausted - I now have a DSS who can be challenging and it’s the same level of exhaustion.

so let’s not dismiss people being tired just because they don’t have children!

@Vault687 "Until you’ve had children you don’t and can’t know what true tiredness is, and you can never love anyone as deeply as your child. That bond is like no other."

This is utter bollocks too!