To be fed up of stupid remarks about childless people

[Beverlysparty]

Just in the last few days on here someone has opined that maybe Lucy letby killed all those little babies because she was 'jealous' of people who had children; someone has stated that as her childless/free friends get older they have become very self absorbed while she hasn't and someone else has made an insulting comment about childless people in hotels.

It's the same in real life; comments about how you don't know real love until you've had children, you don't know what tired is until you've had children, you have all the money in the world for holidays and expensive make up and clothes because you don't have the worry and expense of children.

It's not only insulting it's also deeply inaccurate.

(If people with children want to complain about winning the tiredness wars all the time, why did they have children in the first place? It is a choice most of the time.*

Because they don't know/believe it will be that tiring or because they do know, but they think it will be worth the tiredness and they know the tiredness will be temporary.

Bold fail.

Oh and also because most human beings have a drive to reproduce.

The tiredness I felt after having a child is different to the tiredness I felt before. Having to get up and go to work after being up with an ill child multiple times in the night was very hard, or having to work after being up every 2 hours breast feeding. It was a relentless tiredness, with a huge amount of responsibility on top, the like of which I had never experienced before, and it had knock on impacts to my mental health, work capability, relationships, my immune system everything. It was like a vicious cycle of never feeling truly recovered or refreshed, that I struggled to get out of. I remember feeling that I would be unsafe to drive because I felt so tired on some days.

This has been my experience, but I don't share it much in real life because I understand that everyone has their own unique burdens.

Because you can't know something before you have experienced it?

I have children, but I do think people without can of course feel true tiredness!

A love for a child is a unique love that of course only parents experience but it doesn’t mean people who don’t have children can’t experience true love! There are plenty of “parents” who have killed their children also so if find the Letby comments odd. She is evil just like anyone who kills children - childless or not - in this case I thank the lord she didn’t have children!

Personally, I was significantly less tired when I had babies than I was with a full on, long hours job and a commute.

I have a child. Before I had a child I had uncontrolled chronic illness, was dangerously anaemic and lacking b12, and could not take on fluids or food and was working 12 hr shifts on my feet. I was so ill I sometimes had to lie on the floor at work so I didn't faint. But when it's your only income and you've been that ill for years, being off sick is not an option. Believe me, I was consistently more tired then than I have been in the years since having my child. Not knowing what tiredness is until you've had a child is supercilious drivel.

I've also discovered that it's far more likely that friends with children are 'self absorbed' than ones without. Especially when they're small. They're understandably the focus of their parents lives, so they tend to talk about their children and do things related to their children, and have not a lot of time for talking about or doing anything else.

I'm also suspicious about what people mean by childless/free people being self absorbed. Doing what you want or like to do is not 'self absorbed', it's enjoying your life. I suspect they actually mean that the childfree/less people aren't bending and focusing their lives to accommodate other people's children. Why would they? I don't do that for other people's children either. I do it quite a lot for mine, because they're mine!

Whilst I agree with you it IS related, women get slated for everything we do whether that is choosing to be a mother or choosing a childfree life. I wish everyone would just get on with their own lives and stop judging others for their choices.

I can assure you that as someone who couldn't have children due to my numerous health issues, including chronic fatigue I know what tiredness is. Don't be so ridiculous and offensive.

I guess the tiredness thing will sound true if you've never been severely ill, or don't have a friend with a disability. What do they think Harold Shipman's motivation was, jealousy of old people?

Ditto

How ridiculous. Personally I hadn’t known proper tiredness before having DC as I’ve always had an office job, been relatively healthy, no caring responsibilities etc. but there are many situations that could lead to people experiencing he same or worse tiredness than having DC. What about those working long night shifts or many shifts in a row without a break for weekends, those caring for disabled relatives or those with illnesses that cause extreme tiredness to name a few situations. I do agree with the not knowing what it’s like to love your child, but that is different to not knowing true love.

@Beverlysparty absolutely agree. Those comments are offensive as well as completely inaccurate. The posters who speculated that LL might have been secretly desperately jealous of the parents and this was what led her to commit multiple murder should be fucking ashamed of themselves

There's a big difference between saying that one reason LL might have been motivated to kill was that she was jealous of others having babies, and saying that people who don't have children are psychopathic killers.

I think there are some women who can't get their heads around others not wanting children, and believe it's their role in life to educate them about why they should.

But there are also people who feel judged for not having children not because of how they have actually been treated/spoken to, but because they themselves hold internal, embedded beliefs that society says they must be weird for not wanting them, and they then feel judged by others because they're projecting their own feelings onto others and seeing criticism where there is none. An example of this would be:

A: I reckon LL killed those poor babies because she was jealous that she didn't have any
B: So you're saying all childless women are psychopaths?

What a load of nonsense! Love is so subjective , you have no idea how deeply a person loves their dad or mum and can easily be the same intensity as the love of a child. Tiredness from cancer is not as “true” as tiredness from having a young child ? Comments like this are why people find some parents insufferably self centred.

I mean, I looked after my friends dog this last week and I was more tired than I have been since DS(6) was a baby.

DS can get up, go to the toilet, pour some cereal and entertain himself if he wakes up before me. Dog needed a wee and poo at 6 am which meant I had to get up, get dressed and deal with stinky dog shit before my eyes had opened properly.

I do know I love DS more deeply than I've ever loved anything and anyone before, but that's just my personal experience. That doesn't mean that all childless people don't know real love.

It's that population I guess I'm referring to - you throw shit at folk, they're eventually going to throw it back. I may have a skewed view from reading the childfree threads on here.

But I think the question is what made whoever said that make that link? Why with no evidence to suggest this would someone think that she could’ve been jealous of mums?

She was an evil psychopath so I think it’s a bit insensitive to put that down to a made up idea related to her childlessness.

Having a child (which is usually not that difficult to achieve for most people) is the only achievement some women will ever achieve so they defend that ‘achievement’ with all their might and this sometimes involves putting down women who do not have children. It’s very sad (and a tad pathetic) Popping kids out has not made me a more loving or tired person than my friends who do not have DC.

They way childless women are portrayed in the media does nothing to help the prejudice towards them IRL. They're always depicted as batshit baby stealers 🙄 utterly utterly ridiculous.

Me too with the insomnia. I've had it for 20 odd years, fuelled by staying awake in fear of being attacked in my bed by my bastard of an ex husband. I would say that you can't know what tiredness really is until you've spent night after night awake in dear of being killed and then for years afterwards, dealing with the memories....but I won't because I'm not a knob and I understand that many people can be tired for many different reasons. All of which are valid.

I'm sure that Lucy Letby didn't commit those crimes because she didn't have children herself, it was because she is a psychopath.

As for the love of a child, well for me it is unique. There are now two people who are more important to me than I am myself; people that I would give my life for if needed without a second thought. However I'm not sure this applies to all parents. Ex friend of DM's son was clearly irritating to his mother and got in the way of her life. Awful. Not everyone should be a parent, especially if they don't want to be.

I also love the narrative that childless people are selfish.

Having a child is (usually) one of the most selfish things in the world.

The most selfish person I know happens to be a mother and grandmother. People can be selfish in many ways and forms.

Northern Americans generally chose their partner? Over their child? Wtf??