To be fed up of stupid remarks about childless people

[Beverlysparty]

Just in the last few days on here someone has opined that maybe Lucy letby killed all those little babies because she was 'jealous' of people who had children; someone has stated that as her childless/free friends get older they have become very self absorbed while she hasn't and someone else has made an insulting comment about childless people in hotels.

It's the same in real life; comments about how you don't know real love until you've had children, you don't know what tired is until you've had children, you have all the money in the world for holidays and expensive make up and clothes because you don't have the worry and expense of children.

It's not only insulting it's also deeply inaccurate.

👏👏

@meatbaseddessert well said

When I was childless I was told on a different forum that I couldn't have any comprehension of death of a child. this was after stating that I had been present at the unexpected/traumatic deaths of children, done cpr on children, heard parents being told their child was dead. I then asked if they had been involved in death in childhood at anytime. The answer was no, but the mere fact that they were a parent trumped anything I had experienced.

And as for the idiots on here saying that childless people lack empathy. I've locked myself in the staff toilet, crying , to escape the sound of primitive screaming from a mother who'd just been told her child had died (traumatic death). I was childless then, my colleague who travelled in the police helicopter with that child doing CPR on her own was and still is childless, and I can assure you that job broke both of us, so do fuck off.

Bizarre how many anti-parent opinions there are on this site. So weird for so many people who are childless by choice to come to a parenting site then slag off the primary users

What about people who have to look after seriously ill (elderly) relatives night after night? That is much more tiring than a baby.

That's true but sadly plenty of people like Vault687 do exist, and I was answering PP's Who in the heck are you all talking to? question.

Firstly, I don’t agree with this - I think many can envisage what a certain thing might be like. They’ll never get it wholly right, or truly understand it unless they go through it, but humans are very imaginative and can generally imagine what things they haven’t experienced might feel or be like.

Secondly, even if I accepted your premise then this argument falls over anyway. Not knowing for certain what something is like because you haven’t experienced it does not mean that you “lack empathy”. If that were the case then every parent would lack empathy because none of them are childless in their 50s.

ODFOD, that is the least original comment ever and has been done to death on here.

Very curious about the 'lacking empathy' bit - could you give us examples. I am in my 40's - IVF for years, MC's etc but gave up my 20's and early 30's to caring for various family members - I won't go into detail - I essentially delayed having children in order to care for those in my family who needed it and have had an unreal struggle to have children now. I'm really curious how you find me as a childless person lacking empathy? perhaps you've had people not pay attention to you or your children ? you've equated that with a lack of empathy - has it occurred to you that there are those of us out there who find it hard to talk to people about their kids or be around children - i remember actually having a miscarriage at the time when I ran into an old friend with two young kids and a baby on the way - I thought i'd never get away from her. That said, some childless people just don't want to waste time being around noisy annoying kids - don't confuse that with a lack of empathy either - just as you wouldn't force your dog on someone who doesn't like dogs - don't force your kids on someone who just doesn't like them.

You misunderstand empathy. Its not necessary to have been in that position yourself to be able to relate to the feelings others may have in that situation. Few of us thankfully will have experienced the murder of a child. Few of us wouldn't empathise with those who had.
As for empathy from managers, I think it can go the other way. For every manager who offers concessions to tired parents you'll find another who thinks, well I managed so I don't see why you can't.

@BLT24 me too. I know tiredness in my bones. It's been with me (along with pain) for decades and will be for the rest of my life. With a baby you know that they will grow up and it will pass. Try having a disability with no cure or effective treatment.

@Stormydayagain I’m so sorry.

I’ve been told on here that I can’t feel as deeply upset over child abuse cases as parents do despite being a victim of child abuse. It’s people who say things like that that truly lack empathy, in my view.

I always find childless people lack empathy

oh don’t talk crap

What, the comment that childfree people murder babies out of jealousy? Is that comment true?

Go outside.

Funny because the worst person I ever knew in a workplace had three children and the most vile person I've ever known had two children.

I've got kids and I don't love anyone as much as them. That's not to say childless people haven't experienced true love. I love my husband and family but it's different to what your feel for your kids.
As for Lucy Letby I don't know why she did it but maybe she did feel some bitterness and jealousy towards the parents of the babies. I think anyone with that opinion is talking just about Lucy Letby though and not all childless people. People will try to find reasons for her behaviour because it's so despicable.

@Bex5490 not at all - what about the old cliche 'if I can't have it, you can't have it either'?

As I say I don't think this was LL's motive, I'm just saying that suggesting it as a motive doesn't mean you're saying all childless women are capable of murdering babies.

So I challenge this with managers who do have children place more expectations on people without children.

"Oh you have parents evening tonight? Give the report to [childless colleague] to finish"

"X and Y can't work weekends, they have children!"

"Well someone has to work Xmas day and it isn't fair to make parents do it"

Etc

@Kibris

is that because you are someone who thinks that as you have children you have first dibs at holidays, expect people to cover you so you can look after sick kids at the drop of a hat and never reciprocate?

I often find in the workplace lots with kids expect to be allowed to do whatever they want simply because they have kids, the number of women who simply don’t think that actually the father could take a day off to cover kids sickness, go to a drs appointment etc is astounding. And everyone else, both those with out and those who’s kids have grown up are expected to accommodate them

Being selfish and having empathy work both ways

Why is it not possible that many people are happily child free by choice, and yet Lucy Letby did what she did out of spite and because she is bitter and jealous? Lucy Letby is not some figurehead for nurses, nor for childless unmarried women. She’s a murderer. No one, except for the murderer herself, knows why she did it. She is quite clearly evil, that’s for sure. But it’s not completely illogical to think that perhaps she holds such strong hatred towards people she sees as having the happiness that she doesn’t have (a baby, a family, a happy relationship?) and she wanted to take that away and cause suffering, because what could be more traumatic than losing your baby?

Nonsense.

You don't know what tiredness is if you are not chronically ill, or living in abject poverty etc.

Having children or not has no bearing at all

And you can have children and be completely cold to them

If Lucy Letby was a man would the question of him being jealous over not having children even come up? I highly doubt it - just adding to the trope that women have one main job to do on the planet and that's have kids - if they can't have kids or choose not to have kids then they are automatically jealous and resentful of those who do. Christ the bullshit that people tell themselves

I didn't realise until a thread on here recently how many childless people have had to deal with some truly stupid and offensive comments from parents.

It's embarrassing, patronising and completely untrue.

Regards tho to LL, I think it was what she wrote in her note and apparently has a medical reason conceiving may be difficult.

Re: tiredness - your body doesn't KNOW what made it tired. It reacts to the amount of sleep you received and your bodily hormone levels on exactly the same way regardless of what caused it. If you think that only children can cause those changes then frankly you're a combination of thick and inexperienced.

My husband and I are night owls, and I'm an insomniac. My husband has also had to pull 100h weeks regularly in his early career. We've had to live in a morning lark world for all our adult lives, so it's galling to hear early risers ask us how we're going to manage with a lack of sleep, when those lazy fuckers have been going to bed at half nine since they were in their early twenties.

I do wonder if some people just don't have much imagination, when they come out with sweeping statements about not being able to understand what it's like to eg be a parent if you haven't done it. I can imagine a lot of it perfectly well and that combined with observations of those close to me is why I don't have any children! I know in my bones that I am temperamentally unsuited to the relentless, bodily function and food smeared chaos of the early years. I'd actually have quite enjoyed older children I suspect but that possibility wasn't enough to make me go through the sheer physicality of babies and toddlers.

Now, you might say what I can't imagine is the good side, which counters the above. The heart stopping, all consuming love that makes nappies and vomit a minor issue. And that may be true. I'm happy with my choice though.

None of that means I lack empathy though. The Lucy Letby case taps into a primal horror for all of us. As do all the cases where people have murdered their child / step child. Parent or not, we are all programmed (or should be) to protect babies and children. The idea of attacking a newborn baby chills and baffles all of us. It is genuinely incomprehensible. We can all imagine the pain of the loss of those parents, compounded by the years spent to get an answer, to find out that the very person entrusted with their helpless infant attacked them. It is sickening, in an actual physical response way because it's so overwhelming. I'm a human being. I don't need to be a parent for that.