To ask why your parents dying is so catastrophically awful

[NCdoinggriefwrong]

obv talking about parents who die of natural causes and who are elderly…(not those who die with young kids or at age 50 etc - am talking the 75+ cohort)

Have NCed for this as think I might be U.

my DH’s father has Parkinson’s alongside what is increasingly looks like dementia and is dying. He was diagnosed at 81 and is now 86 and obviously declining. My DH has been in an absolute tailspin about this on an ongoing basis, which at some level I understand but I also sort of think he needs to manage a bit better and pull
himself together - he’s had 5 years to get used to the idea his dad has a progressive disease, he knows it’s only going in one direction, and at the end of the day, his dad is 86, how long do people really live?

and it got me thinking (and searching MN threads) about why people are so devastated when their parents die. I have a fabulous relationship with my parents and ofc I will grieve them and miss them when they’re gone (dad in his 80s, mum in her 70s). But I can’t imagine falling apart because my parents do something utterly foreseeable and get old
and die. I’ve been through my parents’ funeral wishes and probate stuff etc with them and we’ve acknowledged they won’t be around forever and are just enjoying the time we do have.

Am I a horrible person and utterly cold fish? I feel like I’m missing something major. FYI I am a compleyely
empathetic person irl so it’s not that I am an emotionless robot in my day to day life. I just don’t understand why a parent dying is anything other than expected and, well, just sad.

It's not a competition. Sadder than anyone else!
It's not just the fact that a parent has died, it's what led to that death, it can be about watching the other parent fall apart. It's the feeling helpless for that other parent. It can, and it was for me, the shock of someone who we didn't know was even ill being taken from us, one of the silent cancers.
Sadder than anyone else? FFS ! I could barely function!
Being signed off can also depend on the job you do. I couldn't go and take myself off and hide behind a screen.
Sadder than anyone else! I can't even put into words how angry that made me

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/4866628-so-bloody-exhausted-waiting-for-someone-to-die

For all those people saying that everyone is devastated when a parent dies this (current) thread is an alternative reality.
I do agree not being able to understand why someone would be devastated is showing a lack of empathy.
But I also think not understanding why someone else wouldn't be devastated shows a lack of empathy as well.

My mum died in her 40s and I lost my best friend. Dad is still alive but showing signs of getting old he's 76.

My in-laws both died within the last 18 months. It was less hard losing my in-laws as they were both in their 90s. FiL was a bit of a shock as he collapsed and had a bleed on the brain and MiL had been mourned for years as she had Alzheimer's and was heading rapidly for final stage.

It is different how you feel depending on the age someone dies at and how close you were.

We're not very good at dealing with death as it's not such an everyday occurrence as it used to be

This thread is fascinating. Thank you, OP.

What I find so interesting is that so many people are commenting to tell the OP that she has no empathy and yet they are completely failing to understand that they have no empathy themselves. They are projecting their own individual situations onto others. I read up to about page eight, and the sheer number telling OP ‘wait until it happens to you’ with a touch of glee, like they’re in some elite club because ‘they have grieved’ is unreal. The idea that everyone has the same dynamic with their parents (regardless whether it’s a positive relationship or not) for a start, the idea that a person must show grief in a certain way, for a certain duration, to be acceptably empathic. It’s just weird.

Of course, humans are primarily pack animals and they seek affirmation for their own experience, which completely explains why people are responding as they are, but I still think it’s deeply ironic that so many are so scornful of OP because she is asking a perfectly legitimate question to try and understand something she does not feel.

You are not lacking empathy, OP. You’re actually showing a great deal by seeking and accepting variation and diversity of feeling and experience of others. Your post suggests that you accept and understand what death means on a practical level. Regardless of how you will emotionally feel when the time comes in your own life, that knowledge and those thought processes will serve you and others well.

Grief is indeed a process and it is natural, but that doesn’t mean to say that it can’t become pathological or unhealthy. The way some people talk about death with reverence points to the way society is completely detached from its very organic, matter-of-fact reality. It’s normal to be sad when someone dies. It’s also normal to be relieved. Circumstances vary. It’s not normal to take death and turn it into something to pin every stumble or issue or difficulty in life onto.

Don’t worry, OP. You will be holding down the practical parts of life while your DH tries to deal with his emotions and get himself back on track. That’s important. When someone dies the world does not stop - life goes on. It seems to be one of the things most people who battle against accepting death seem to struggle with.

I think a lot of the responses to OP would have been different if she had put the explanation below in her first post rather than talking about DH pulling himself together and then the massive drip feed. The thread title comes across as goady as well.

Yes exactly. I don’t mean to imply that DH shouldn’t be sad, very sad - more that he seems very surprised by all of this and it all still seems very fresh. It’s been going on for 5 years and his dad could live for another 5-10. His grief regularly impedes our family life, he is unable to care for our children and takes time off work. It just seems very maladaptive to me.

@SunsetOverParadise excellent post, couldn't have said it better myself! I too have been reading this thread and also find it fascinating. I posted last night too. As for the people calling OP a "sociopath" and using caps to say they "HATE THIS THREAD" and "it's the worst thread I've ever seen" really need to get a grip. OP is at least attempting to learn and understand and engage with people to see how others grieve.

Don't be ridiculous.

@SunsetOverParadise @FMSucks I feel the same. Honestly I see a serious lack of empathy in the posts suggesting that anyone who doesn't feel the same way they did at the loss of an elderly parent is in some way deficient.
Have a read of the thread I linked to in my post a few posts back. People like the OP on that post have a much worse situation than those who lose their parent - which while sad WILL happen to all of us (if we live that long)
Id much rather lose a parent than live in the limbo hell of that poor poster. And I wouldn't want that existence for anyone I loved either.

Hyperbole, but yes. Just because someone can't understand someone else's grief doesn't mean it isn't valid.

@Goslowglowworm thank you. I have read the OP and totally agree with you. My DM (fitter than everyone I know!) has said she will not be a burden on anyone and I totally agree with her stance and will do the same when the time comes.

I am so shocked at the reactions to this post. I understood from the opening post alone that the OP was not saying that you shouldn't be sad. Only, that it shouldn't really be a shock.

And I agree with OP. My parents are in their early 70's and both have said they will not want to be a burden. They would be horrified if we collapsed with grief. I have a good relationship with my parents, which is probably why I feel pragmatic.

I can, however, see my one sister be stricken down with grief though. She has not accepted that my parents have lived their lives, and made their choices as to where they are today.

I will of course be very, very sad. And I will miss them greatly, especially my Dad and his chats. But this is life.

I wouldn't want my children to mourn me forever either. You get one life. Death is part of it and you cannot live your life if you haven't accepted death (old age! NOT young people taken too soon.)

i just don’t understand how the death of elderly parents can be a shock or something that you just can’t imagine, it’s reality and surely it’s better to face up to it than deny it.

I thought Phil Spencer’s reaction to his parents sudden death showed a great deal of maturity and acceptance.

i just don’t understand how the death of elderly parents can be a shock or something that you just can’t imagine, it’s reality and surely it’s better to face up to it than deny it.

Surely you must realise that circumstances can change the way people react? To find out after my 70 year old DF died that he had cancer all over his body and that's what killed him was a massive shock. Although he had MS no one actually expected him to die the morning after he went into hospital.

Phil Spencer was right! I'm sure he is very sad but I'm also sure his parents would 100% prefer have gone out together, and quickly at that, rather than the horrible slow decline further into Parkinson's and Alzheimer's that they were already suffering from. It may have even been a choice for them. If so it was a valid one.
RIP Spencer's.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat sorry about your dad, I wouldn’t put 70 in this category - to me that’s relatively early. I was thinking of 80+, ie average life expectancy in the UK.

Beauty of the internet. You're not forced to read something. 🙄

You sound like a right cold fish!

My parents are in their 70s, I adore them and although they are both fit and healthy I'll be broken hearted when I lose them because I love them.

Do you not love you're parents? Or perhaps you are a sociopath?

5 weeks ago I lost my father, early 70s, unexpected death. His absence is everywhere.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat I would have been shocked about the sudden and unexpected nature of a death like that too. 70 isn't actually that old either. Sorry for your loss.
I totally can understand why people might feel devastated losing a parent btw. I just can also understand those that don't. And I find it upsetting (and ironic!!) that people are telling people who don't feel devastated that they lack empathy.

Are you wallowing and have been for years in grief, knowing your parents are going to die someday. Taking time off work, not being able to parent and expecting your partner to pick up the slack?

Yanno like the OPs bloke?

Throughout most of human history, losing babies was expected. Indeed, in nature, a large proportion of most babies of most animals die in horrible conditions. Before we had modern medicine, vaccines, sanitation and all those other unnatural things that nowadays keep babies in the Western world alive and defend them from the harsh scythe of natural selection, a lot of children did not make it to adulthood. My great-grandpa had 8 siblings, only 3 of whom survived. Burying babies was the normal thing. Would it have been OK to say to a grieving mother "well, some of them were bound to die anyway, get back to work"? Somehow, I doubt it. Indeed, I have heard and read stories of mothers who went insane with grief in those times, despite how common it was to suffer a loss like that.

It was also very normal and natural for young women to die in childbirth or from related complications. I bet that didn't make their families feel any better.

Death is normal and natural at any age. Indeed, it is only in recent times that it has become a thing for old people. The average life expectancy in previous times was much lower because it was normal and common to be struck down in childhood or youth by things like infectious diseases. The loss we feel when we lose a human being is not, nor it should be, tied to their age, economic worth etc. It's about our love for them and their importance in our lives. In a way, human love and grief are unnatural, the same way all things we try to build as humans, art, inventions etc are a defiance of our temporary nature. I don't understand people who respond to everything with "logic" and "pragmatism".

@CodenameSailorV I don't understand people who can equate the death of a child to one of someone elderly who has lived their life. But there we are.

Of course I’ll be broken hearted and grieve. I adore my parents. We live far away and I think about how dreadful it’s going to be to have to get on the plane having got a call that one of them is on the way out or has died. It’s going to be sh1t, but I don’t think I’ll collapse or break down though - and I don’t think it’s a terrible or catastrophic thing, it’s what is meant to happen to your parents. Of course I’ll still have an emotional reaction to them not being here anymore!

I’ve had a reasonable amount of grief in my life - my first boyfriend was killed in a car accident when we were 17, I’ve had one friend die rapidly of skin cancer, another drop dead for reasons we still don’t know at age 39 - he left behind a 4&6 year old. Plus a few friends with cancer. All my grandparents have died. But I know that grief is a process and you do get through it and quite frankly I believe the best thing to do is to lean into all the happy times you have had and live your life in a way that honours the people you have lost. I don’t believe in god or an afterlife and I find it comforting that once you’re gone, you’re gone - your memory lives on but that’s it.

I just struggle with how an 86 yo with Parkinson’s who is beginning to lose his memory (he’s still perfectly sentient, just starting to degrade a bit) justifies anything more than sadness and a determination to make the most of what time is left in the best possible way. Ofc I do not vocalise any of this to DH (other than encouraging him to spend time!)

@NCdoinggriefwrong i honestly think the difference between your reaction and the ones from posters who are giving you abuse if likely contained in this one section of your post:

"I’ve had a reasonable amount of grief in my life - my first boyfriend was killed in a car accident when we were 17, I’ve had one friend die rapidly of skin cancer, another drop dead for reasons we still don’t know at age 39 - he left behind a 4&6 year old. Plus a few friends with cancer. All my grandparents have died."

People who haven't previously experienced the loss of loved ones, especially YOUNG loved ones are way more likely to not be able to deal with the grief of losing an elderly parent.

I don't think you are lacking empathy at all. And yes I have lost a parent. They were in their 40s at the time.

I do get it op. But it seems you’re sadly well-versed in grief.

My dad dying was my first experience of losing anyone close to me. He had a terminal illness and we just generally felt he went too soon, like we still had a few years left together. Missing someone is really hard.

But I do also think it’s interesting that you can celebrate their lives at the same time.