To ask why your parents dying is so catastrophically awful

[NCdoinggriefwrong]

obv talking about parents who die of natural causes and who are elderly…(not those who die with young kids or at age 50 etc - am talking the 75+ cohort)

Have NCed for this as think I might be U.

my DH’s father has Parkinson’s alongside what is increasingly looks like dementia and is dying. He was diagnosed at 81 and is now 86 and obviously declining. My DH has been in an absolute tailspin about this on an ongoing basis, which at some level I understand but I also sort of think he needs to manage a bit better and pull
himself together - he’s had 5 years to get used to the idea his dad has a progressive disease, he knows it’s only going in one direction, and at the end of the day, his dad is 86, how long do people really live?

and it got me thinking (and searching MN threads) about why people are so devastated when their parents die. I have a fabulous relationship with my parents and ofc I will grieve them and miss them when they’re gone (dad in his 80s, mum in her 70s). But I can’t imagine falling apart because my parents do something utterly foreseeable and get old
and die. I’ve been through my parents’ funeral wishes and probate stuff etc with them and we’ve acknowledged they won’t be around forever and are just enjoying the time we do have.

Am I a horrible person and utterly cold fish? I feel like I’m missing something major. FYI I am a compleyely
empathetic person irl so it’s not that I am an emotionless robot in my day to day life. I just don’t understand why a parent dying is anything other than expected and, well, just sad.

@BLT24

No one said it wasn't devastating,

That wasn't what the OP said either.

I sort of see where you're coming from but I think it's a bit heartless even so. My mum died of Covid and she was very ready for death, and my dad of Parkinson's earlier this year: his last year was a misery and he had expressed the wish not to keep going. So in a sense both of them got what they wanted. But for me, realizing that I will never see either of them again, and thinking, "Oh she/he would have loved/been really interested in that" but I can't tell them, is desperately sad. And of course it's also about my own mortality - my parents lived into their 80s and I am nearly 60 and have perhaps 20-25 years left...How old are you, I wonder, OP?

It’s also worth considering that for some people their parents are everything because they might not have a partner and or children. So many people base their opinions on their own world view. And if they do or don’t have a partner and children and if their parents are 99 when they die they are quite perfectly entitled to feel deep grief. Nobody has the right to tell others how they should grieve or establish grief hierarchies. Quiet kindness and empathy go a long way. And it does not detract from the tragedy of young death either. Grief is a very lonely place and threads like this do not help. How you experience grief is not how everyone else should experience grief either.

I am with you OP but a big big part of why you (and I) feel at ease that old people are going to die is we’ve talked about it, planned it.

my grandfather had terminal cancer. Bowel cancer that spread. We had only 18 months from the diagnosis but because my grandfather and I had talked about his wishes etc it was easy for me to be able grieve. Other family memebers fell apart but they were also the ones who didn’t discuss that possibility of death, wouldn’t entertain it. Even discussions of organ donation register were ended.

i know I’ll have people dismissing me as it was a grandfather and not the same but he was my ‘dad’ and I miss him terribly. But I remind myself that I got to have him for 35years and I’ll be 70 before the years he has gone outweigh they years I had him.

I do think we’ve gone a bit backward in our death rituals personally and we should celebrate more rather than mourn, there’s a lot that be shared and cherished and celebrated as one family member dies new ones grow up and that’s a pretty astounding legacy to leave behind.

My children and I are quite pragmatic about it too.

Tbh, I don't want them to be devastated and go through years of prolonged grief that impacts on them and their own lives/families.

I'll have had my life. I don't want theirs to be limited by the one thing that was guaranteed was going to happen the day I was born.

When my mother was alive I sometimes used to think that I wouldn't be that upset if she died as we weren't close.

Then she died.

I never thought I would feel the level of grief that I have experienced for her.

I miss her more than I ever thought I would.

I think you're focusing too much on it not being unexpected. That's only part of it.

The sadness is that you'll never get to see or talk to a loved one ever again. It's a massive loss. A loss that is forever. Presumably your DHs Dad has been around ALL his life and then when he dies he will NEVER be in his life again.

You can't even imagine what it's like not to have them as you've always had them so the loss can be overwhelming.

People dont think logically for the most part.

Its all emotion.

The logical (quantitative people) know that an 85 year old person only has X years to live.

I have been in the actuarial business for decades so am mostly desensitised to it.

People tend to be pretty irrational when it comes to end of life care.

Thats also where most of our healthcare spending goes to in the UK (and US).

50% to extending life for a few years even if their quality of life is poor.

Nobody has been able to find a solution to this problem yet.

This thread is a case in point.

Grief can be a lot more complex where the relationships with parents are more difficult. It’s not just - oh well you never liked him much anyway…

All that really matters in this situation is that your husband is distressed.

Exactly the same as mine. My father’s death knocked me for six. However, I’m in my seventies now, and death was much more a part of life in the years after WWII, people grieved, but generally got on with life. I think people had to be more resilient then.

DH and I have discussed death, one of us will be left, it will be pretty awful for the survivor after 50+ years together, but death is part of life, oldest first is the natural order.

This thread is genuinely one of the ones on mumsnet that I think must have been infiltrated by paid trolls. Some of the responses to a genuine decent question are an utter disgrace. Good luck to all the people who absolutely lose the plot when 80 odd year olds die if you ever lose someone in young age. Mental.

@girljulian I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, it's a horrible disease.

...but of course you don't, he hasn't died yet.

Yes exactly. I don’t mean to imply that DH shouldn’t be sad, very sad - more that he seems very surprised by all of this and it all still seems very fresh. It’s been going on for 5 years and his dad could live for another 5-10. His grief regularly impedes our family life, he is unable to care for our children and takes time off work. It just seems very maladaptive to me.

But it’s true that I haven’t had a parent die. Perhaps I’ll eat my words. But I feel at peace with the idea that if they both dropped dead tomorrow I had a wonderful life with them and so did my kids. I’ve thought about it a lot. No regrets.

@Runnerinthenight
@5128gap :

5128gap
Its not the fact that parents get old and die that people struggle to accept. It's the loss of them, that unique and special person who you've never known life without.
When my mum died, I remember thinking, that's it now, the only person who ever has or who ever will love me unconditionally and always put me first, has gone. However good your relationship with a partner is, or however much your children Iove you, is not the same as being loved by a parent.
Its also a very powerful reminder of your own mortality when you lose the generation that stands between you and the grave.

That's very much what I felt - it's a blow to your own mortality. I'm the eldest of 4, and our parents very much played a role in all our lives. I phoned them every day at least once. I visited every couple of weeks (they were a distance away from us), they adored my kids. There was always someone there who truly had your back, whatever.

I don't think it matters what age your parent is when s/he dies. You don't think of them as an 'age'. They're just mum and dad!.

We all Understand the above.
But that isn't the point the Op is making.

Thinking about what your mum and dad are, and what they mean to you, sho should be done ideally 40 in your 40s 50s and 60s. way beyond when your parents actually get ill . And pass.

But none of that is fest OP as referring to.

You have changed the thread to incorporate your own views.

Why is it either "a tragedy" or nothing at all?

Well that too. My parents have been very clear that they adore me and want me to enjoy life after they have gone. I’m in my 40s now and feel grateful that I’ve had so much time with them and my kids have got to know them.

You're not despicable. I feel the same way.

My dad is in the long process of dying. He's only 65. It is miserable and painful. He is full of cancer and has no quality of life, but the doctors seem determined to drag every last painful moment they can out of him.

I want him to die so that he's not in pain, we can mourn him, find peace, and carry on. Not because I don't love him, but because that's life.

Not everyone is so hyperbolic about death.

This. I wish I hadn't opened it

I don't think people will agree on this, but I think it comes down ultimately to the way you see death. Surely it's inevitable after a certain age?

I've cried with friends who have lost parents young. Because it was too soon. I was devastated when my grandfather died, because I was 14 and he was 65 and it was so quick.

But in my 40s, and with friends in 40s and 50s developing health issues- many with children- I just can't get as upset about family in their 80s. Yes, it will be sad when they die, but that's what happens. How long are people supposed to live for?

Everyone has a relationship with their parents in some way, whether that’s a good one or a bad one. So how someone grieves them is completely subjective.
Maybe when I was early twenties and childless I’d see people dying in their 80’s and think, really this was expected wasn’t it?but now my parents are reaching their 70’s, suddenly I’m starting to think of that time that actually I didn’t think would ever come. It chills me to the bone, my parents are my total rocks, the backbone of our family. They do so much for us. Physically and emotionally. We have wonderful memories and I just can’t imagine never making anymore. I don’t think I’ll ever be strong enough for this Earth without them to be honest.
If you don’t have that relationship, that’s fine but so many do so just leave them to try and deal as best they can.

This angers me. The lack of any real solution to end of life care

my grandfather was 79 and the DRs all talked of ‘curing’ him of his cancer. Talk of chemo and other drugs.

im grateful his disease took him quickly but I don’t think it should ever have been appropriate to consider chemo for an 79 yo obese diabetic with heart disease.

there should’ve been a very pragmatic and honest discussion that surgery to remove the bowel blockage and pain medication and a palliative care plan was the most appropriate plan for him and death was inevitable and selling a hope of extended life was just cruel.

instead there was lung surgery, bowel surgery, explorative scans, chemo etc. all left him in a state of post surgery recover for half the time he had left.

Someone who dies in their 70s may have had a long life, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's been a good life. I think part of the reason I felt so awful about my dad's death was that I'm not sure if he was ever genuinely happy. He also didn't really achieve anything or do anything of note, compared to other people's parents, and had few friends and no real interests. His life seems a bit wasted.

I think you're wrong to criticise how anyone else deals with it. Although your husband does sound a bit extreme, has he considered counselling? Needing to take time off work and being unable to take care of his children when his father may live for years more must mean it's taking a serious toll on him.

But I also think the posters saying "just you wait and see" are wrong. Not everyone deals with things the same way, so it's a bit ridiculous to say that once someone loses a parent they'll feel a specific way. My mother (whose father died at 95 with severe dementia) feels much the same way as OP - she had a good relationship with her dad, and of course she was upset.

Mn at its very worst.
OP : I have was wondering about 1. MN: We hate you for mentioning 2,3 & 4.

All rational people; Eh? She only mentioned 1. Where did the 2, 3,4 come into it?

You're not. Ignore the grief monkeys on this thread who think that everyone should mourn as they do, weeping & wailing & rending clothing. Some of us accept what happens & know that there's a time for this, and have the strength to cope. And I've lost both parents, and both in-laws. And it's much worse when they linger, going through so much more pain, than when they go quickly & suddenly.