Not allowed to make threats?!

[PickleConfused]

I would like some outsider opinions as I need to know if I’m being unreasonable.

I’m currently dealing with a stressful situation regarding my FIL who lives with us. He is complete nightmare to live with and despite repeated attempts to get through to him, it continues.

I’m now at the end of my tether and I’ve told my DH that I cannot live with FIL anymore. I gave DH an ultimatum that either we convert part of the house into an annexe for FIL to live independently or I leave for the sake of my mental health.

BIL has told me that I’m not allowed to make threats about leaving as they are unhelpful and I’ve been told I have to find another way to solve the situation. DH agreed with his brother.

AIBU?

Make an appointment with a solicitor. Let dh know you plan to force a sale of the house.

Stop letting these men dictate to you. And threaten all you like... then carry it out ie consequences.

Meanwhile, stop catering for FIL.

If part of the deal was that your FIL continues to live there, sounds like it may have been, you need to reach on an agreement for his care needs.
He may well have a moral right to live there but you benefited him financially by buying his home. You haven't agreed to to be a domestic servant.
Or carer. Perhaps some of your husband's money should go towards getting a cleaner and/ or carer.
Do you have any of your own money invested in the home?

OP has answered all that in her posts. They didn’t buy his house. They got involved with moving in plan because FIL couldn’t maintain the house which was anyway not his. The plan was for his to live in a annexe/granny flat conversion within the house.

Apologies Op didn't read properly

They were gifted 50% his house and then bought out only 25% of their half with the agreement they would build an annexe and he could continue to live there. They never built the annex and he continues to live with them.

This is his house, so far, he has gotten 25% of the proceeds and is not wanted there. A pretty awful way to treat someone. I am sure when he gifted the house with the conditions he had, he didn't think his DILs plan was to boot him to the streeet and take the house. If OP didn't want to live with him, that should have been clear before they accepted the gift of the house and moved into his house. He could have sold the house, taken 100% of the profits and found himself a different place to live.

Your husband and BIL think they can tell you what to say?! On top of the FIL situation this sounds intolerable.

Not quite - OP's husband and brother owned the house 50/50.

OP and husband bought brother out.

FIL then asked for 25% of the value to buy him out, despite the fact he owned none of the property anyway.

The refurb/repairs needed meant that the annexe planned was not built and by the time they've got round to looking at that again, FIL doesn't want it and OP has no support.

I guess FIL could have sold the house when he divorced, and would have had to hand over half probably to his ex wife, i guess he didn't want to do that.

I see no mention of FIL paying market rate rent on the property after he gifted it to his children and continued to live there, without maintaining it.

I can see someone is being screwed over, it is not FIL.

Charging an aging parent market rent after they gift you a house to live in with the agreement they can stay on would be a new moral low.

This is his house, so far, he has gotten 25% of the proceeds

Tell me you haven't read the thread or the OP's posts. The house was GIVEN jointly to OP's DH and BIL. It was no longer FIL's (or MIL's). The OP and DH bought out BIL's half share, paying him 50% of the value of the house. The FIL then demanded that he get 25% of the value of the house even though he no longer had a beneficial interest in it. To keep the peace OP and DH paid him. But he had no absolute right to the money.

Therefore the house belongs entirely to OP and DH. And if OP gets a divorce will be due a share of the value of the house so it may have to be sold anyway unless the DH can also buy HER out.

She’s not entitled to 50% of the house.

She’s entitled to a percentage of a share of it. Best case.

So the house was gifted to your DH and his DB. You paid the DB 50% for his share. Fair enough. Why on earth did you pay FIL 25% for something that wasn't his? Your DH has been royally screwed over by both FIL and DB.

If the agreement was that FIL would live in an annexe - that presumably you will pay for seeing as own the house, then that should now continue.

You are within your rights to not want to look after him.

The only way that this situation will improve is if FIL does more for himself and if your DH backs you not FIL. Those things are not happening, so I think you need to follow through with your threat, and move out and let DH deal with looking after FIL. His DB appears to have walked away laughing with 50% of the money and no responsibility towards FIL.

It’s entirely necessary from an inheritance tax perspective.

@saffronsoup “This is his house, so far, he has gotten 25% of the proceeds and is not wanted there.”

Nope.

It’s not his house. It may have been solely his house legally, or a jointly owned property with ex wife back in the day - but it was a marital asset when they divorced. It was gifted at that time to his two sons. It is not his house, although it has been his home.
He wasn’t owed a penny* yet for unknown reasons one son gave him a fuckton of cash anyway.

*legally. There’s a lot more to this morally than OP probably knows - let alone is telling us.

I assume the gifting was to avoid either care costs or inheritance tax, or both.

If you don't charge/pay a market rent, then its pretty clear its just an avoidance scheme/dumping assets.

@skyeisthelimit “Your DH has been royally screwed over by both FIL and DB.”

Not so sure. My bet is the person most screwed over with that house was MIL. You know - the other vagina-owning side character in their penis drama 🤷🏻‍♀️

That depends on whose money was used to buy out BIL and pay FIL his added 25% 'gimme' (since he did not have a quarter share or indeed, any share, of the property at that point).

If that was marital or OP money... then she may well be due 50% of the 75% she and her 'D'H have paid. If the gift of 50% of the property was given to her DH after they were married, then yeah, she might well be entitled to 50%.

It is as clear as mud unless the OP comes and sets everything out clearly though.

⬆ This. LTBs, all three of them.

Exactly this. It was quite some drip feed from OP. She massively benefitted from the arrangement and now she’s no longer happy with it, she’s acting hard done by.

Older people do become more difficult the older they get, but they should have thought of the long term when they entered into this arrangement.

How old are your children (if you have them)? If they are old enough not to need you constantly eg 14/15 upwards I would, in your position, find yourself a one bedroom flat to rent and just move out. It doesn't mean ending your marriage, but you've made it clear that you simply cannot live the way you are and nobody is listening. It's ok to say you can't do it and to make other arrangements.

@PickleConfused - So apart from clearing up after DFIL - one of the first things I would do is sort out the situtation with the house ) ie gifted - people buying each other out DFIL still living in a house he gifted to sons I may not have it right but as others have said for tax / ineritance / care home reasons - this sounds quite messy. )

Now if it is all fine - it is - but I would want to check that out. I know this is aside from your point about looking after DFIL - but I reckon worth clarifying.

What's it got to do with your BIL? Suggest he has his dad living with him. There, that's solved the situation!
Seriously though,lm guessing you have tried lots of things and it's not working. I wouldn't say you're threatening your husband, I'd say you are furnish him with the facts so he can make an educated decision.
Stick to your word. If this can't be resolved remove yourself drom the situation. You cannot jnder estimate the value of peace of mind!

What did FIL do with the 25% of market value which he was not legally entitled to, but got anyway?

I imagine that would have been enough to do the annexe conversion. Perhaps OP and her DH had enough money to do the conversion when they bought BIL out, but because of the 25% to FIL and need for other renovations (because FIL had neglected the house), they no longer did/do.

How long have you been married, OP? How old are the children? How long since you and DH moved in?

All these play into how difficult it will be for you to start again without him. But the fundamental question is: do you want to stay married to him, given the way he is apparently willing to sacrifice your happiness to his father’s needs and wishes?

Sorry, where has the OP 'massively benefited'?

She's moved into a property that comes with a lazy entitled arsehole, and a ton of repairs/renovations, who has demanded 25% of the value of a property he does not appear to own, and who has changed the goalposts AFTER she's moved in and paid out all that money.

Unless OP was actually living in a storm drain under some damp cardboard, this doesn't sound like a massive benefit to me!

The drip feeds may be irritating but the wilful mis-reading of the given facts really makes the discussion pointless!

@PickleConfused

The thing is if DH believes that you have nowhere to go, he will view your ultimatum as an empty threat. I know you've said you have nowhere and I can understand your fear of homelessness. Is there anyone that can take you in, even for a bit to catch your breath? Friends? Relatives of any kind? Is relocating to a cheaper area a possibility?

But if you truly can't afford to rent a flat or even a room, or if there is absolutely no one to take you in, then there is no point in issuing empty threats because it's obvious that DH (backed by BiL) isn't going to kick his dad out or build the promised annexe.

So, what is your alternative? Well, if DH wants FiL there, then let him take care of him. I know you aren't doing his laundry which is great. But stop cleaning after him and stop cooking for him. Feed yourself and DCs (if any) and let DH and FiL cook, feed, and clean up after themselves. Try to carve out a personal space for yourself, a spare room, a corner of the bedroom, and create a place to retreat to. Ignore FiL as much as you can. If he asks you to do something you don't want to do, tell him to ask DH. If you don't want to hear his opinions, get a good pair of AirPods or headphones and put them on. But above all, work towards more financial independence if you can.

What are they going to do, chain you to a radiator?

Follow through. Move out. They can't stop you.