Just turned 14 year old daughter out until 7am in holiday town

[Teenoutallnight]

I just want to get some other opinions on this as I’m really angry with both my DD14 and her dad. For context we’re not together and haven’t been for many years and at some points have co-parented fine.

They visit a holiday park in the UK several times a year. A couple of months ago, when she was there, it turned out she had stayed out until at least 3.30 in the morning, sitting on the sea front, with a couple of teen boys (friends). I found this out because I was looking for a photo on her camera roll and saw pictures taken of her and friends at those times. Her dad didn’t even stay up to make sure she got back in safely. At the time her punishment was to not be able to stay down there for more than one night and to let me know when she was in and safe.

Fast forward to today and she has come back from a week away down there. We’d turned on family sharing on apple so I could see her location. On her last night she turned this off. It turns out she got home at 7am having been out roaming the town all night. She just turned 14 two weeks ago. She was with two friends and two new kids they’d met. I have no idea what they were doing 10-7am and not did her dad or any of the other parents. Her dad did know she was out though and allowed her to stay out/went to bed himself.

She was given boundaries and trust and I really feel like she’s broken them. She’s also an emotional wreck having had a night of no sleep. I plan to take her phone away for a week and not allow her to go down there again this year (park closes in October)

Her dad for his part lied and said he was stargazing with her and then that he was with them but she’s said he wasn’t. He has also said that he thinks the freedom is good for her and that she was ‘safe’ as she was with other kids. I don’t think freedom is a kid with their location turned off with other kids (some of whom they don’t know) roaming the town until 7am.

I guess I’m asking how you would respond to this, are my punishments too harsh (she’s devastated about losing her Snapchat streak), would you be angry?

For voting purposes

YABU - chill she’s 14 and being out until 7am is reasonable
YANBU - not a chance in hell my 14 year old would be allowed to be out until 7am

I feel for you. Teens are tough, doubly so when you have different views from your ex about what constitutes parenting.

Your Ex is being neglectful.
I don't think she is safe in his care overnight . I think you need to spell that out to him. If he can't keep her safe, she can't do overnights.

Her dad is a dick. She’s 14.

You say she’s an emotional wreck. Are you sure she’s ok and not been raped or sexually assaulted?…How about drink/drugs?

Please don’t be angry with her until you’re sure she’s actually ok. Something might have happened to her, she might need you.

I think punishing her for her dads lax attitude isn’t going to work
All that will happen is she will say she is in bed, tell you she is going to sleep then leave the phone inside and go out without it which to me is far more dangerous.

Friends of dc did this and their parents to this day live in blissful ignorance.

I do think that the main punishment lies with the father and her not going to the holiday park if he won’t put in boundaries and refuses to see the danger and doesn’t wait up for her.

I must admit that dd was out till all hours at that age. But we live in London and she was with friends and they stuck to the busy areas which have loads of people around and she had tracking on her phone. I would also wait up till she texted/rang to say she was back at her friends place or they needed picking up

Total lack of safe or effective parenting from your ex.

This would be the last time she would be having overnights with him until she is old enough to make sensible choices and take steps to maintain her own safety.

I wouldn’t be too harsh with her because she told you the truth and that shows you have a good relationship. Her father is to blame here and I would be livid with him but your daughter knows what she did wrong and told you anyway. Refusing to let her go there again this year is actually a good punishment because you can just say that you can’t trust her to keep herself safe and make good choices yet and unfortunately you can’t trust her dad to either.

Dad is the problem here, sounds like he just wanted rid of her for the night, but DD still needs sanction for turning off her phone. That was agreed between you and she deliberately tried to deceive. You had explained the consequences of being out late and alone on a different occasion and that it was something she would not be allowed to do under your care…so she tries Dad instead? Just because it is natural teen behaviour doesn’t mean OP shouldn’t give a punishment.
Interested in why her dad lied about the stargazing - guilt/just wanting you out of the loop because he disagrees with parenting decisions?

I think you need to have a calm chat with DD. Explain you are upset because YOU LOVE HER, you aren’t some raging fun sucker but a mum who would be devastated if anything awful happened to her. Explain you aren’t making boundaries because you get kicks out of it, there are boundaries because it’s what loving parents do, protect their children.

I’d say you understand it’s hard for her to ‘decide’ to come in at a better hour when her dad is green lighting running feral but you did have a deal, location services on, and she went back on that. Explain, if she went missing having her phone traceable is important and gives you some peace of mind that even if her Dad is allowing unsafe things you have some idea of where she is. Tell her if social services knew he just lets his 14 year old go awol overnight and goes to bed they would take a dim view of it.

ask your ex, what’s more important to him? Being a ‘cool dad’ and not doing the hard parts of parenting and in doing so putting his child at risk of unsafe behaviours/ assault/death or actually being a fucking parent and keeping his child safe and making her feel her parents actually care about her safety.

seriously the only part of this that’s on her is turning location services off as you had an agreement. The rest is on her dad allowing this behaviour with his blessing.

wtf is he even doing all evening/overnight whilst she’s out and about? Why does he find it easier to her her elsewhere and not indoors with him? How can he even sleep if he has no idea where she is and what’s she’s doing? How would he feel if the police came knocking on the morning? How would he explain he just lets a 14 year old go wandering all night?

@liveforsummer Why do you think that @Teenoutallnight cannot insist on her daughter keeping the app on that shows her location?

Just because she is staying with her dad does not stop her from being the OP's daughter, or stop the OP from being very concerned for her daughter's welfare! Where did you find this "rule" that says
she has to follow the boundary of only one parent at a time? It is nonsensical and potentially a very dangerous thought process.

Life would be great if both parents (any parents of any child) always agreed on what was best for the welfare of their joint child, but when they don't agree, and it is about a subject as important as this one, then the parent with the stronger (and realistic) concerns needs to be the one that is listened to. If the other parent does not agree with any safeguarding rules then that is the hill that the more protective parent needs to be "willing to die on" ie go back to the courtroom if necessary!

In other words, and using this situation as an example, the OP has a safeguarding rule with her DD that the location app is shared with the OP, and must be kept on at all times. If the DD then deliberately goes against that agreement with her DM then Mum automatically has the right to punish her DD in a way to make sure that that situation never rises again.

On this occasion my punishment - way to correct my DD's potentially dangerous behaviour - would not have been as strong as the OP's (if this was the first time her DD had turned off her location on her phone). I would have told my DD that I was giving her one more chance to stick to the necessary safeguarding rules, but if she ever did that again before she reached adulthood, I would be keeping her phone (for varying lengths of time depending on how often those rules get broken in the future - hopefully never - and also, if relevant, not letting her go to her Dad's or wherever the dangerous behaviour takes place.

If my actions meant my ex took me back to Court over my refusal to let my DD visit him, or go on holiday with him, then I would have ready a detailed list of how and/or why it wasn't safe to let my DD stay with her Dad. It would then be up to the Court to decide which - if either of us - was in the right.

Did you read the bit about them roaming around town? They weren’t sitting outside someone’s caravan in an enclosed park , they were wandering around town. It’s a town. The fact that there’s a holiday park nearby is irrelevant.

This is really difficult for you AND her.

My daughter's dad and I, tho generally we co-parent well, disagree to some extent over the level of freedom/independence we like to allow her. In this instance I, her mom, am the more liberal parent in most regards.

But I am talking here about things like letting her go to the corner shop on her own or into a few shops in a town on holiday on her own while I am in a cafe nearby, and it's broad daylight. (She is 11 - about to start secondary - so I think being out by herself for a little while in the day is fine).

However, your example with your daughter's dad is very extreme - I don't know many parents who would think it was ok for a 14 year old to be out in the town all night, both for safety reasons and also their health and physical well-being - teens need decent sleep for their mental and physical health, in my honest opinion!

I don't think it is your daughter's fault really, as she is only doing what her dad has allowed her and most teens would do this (tho I do also see your point that she is old enough to understand that adults aren't always right and he may make bad choices for her, despite no doubt loving her).

Stopping her spending time with him is a difficult one, as when a child has two loving parents it's almost always vest to ensure they get as equal as possible time with both, in my opinion.

But perhaps an exception does need to be made when he is neglecting her safety to this extent.

Can you give an ultimatum - no more staying with him at the holiday place if this ever happens again? Or do you feel they have both already had that chance and blown it? (You can't keep giving last changes forever.....)

I wouldn't confiscate the phone for too long, as if you are stopping her seeing him, at least she has the option to keep in touch with him over phone, which is probably best for her wellbeing if they do love each other, albeit he's a shit and reckless disciplinarian?

I put YABU because you should be aiming all our ire at her Dad. She’s just a kid, it’s the adults who need to step up and her father is being completely irresponsible. I’d not be letting her go back to her Dad’s and I’d get some advice from social services about this.

14 is young, but a serious talk about the risks and the consequences of her behaviour.
At that age, situations can change in a heartbeat and streetwise predators - even of her own age or younger - would be able to point to messages she had sent saying that she was one place when she was somewhere else and destroy her credibility.
Lying works until you need strangers to believe an inconvenient truth.

Why are you punishing her ,for not being looked after properly
stop her visitation rights to her dad ,he can explain to the court why he allowed her out all night
she’s 14 ,it’s not her fault that u let her go to her dads knowing he lets her out till all hours ,and not her fault that her dad doesn’t give a crap
but by all means yes punish her for not being the adult in this senario

The then-13yo sister of a friend of mine was the same. Parents split up when she was about 5, and haven't got on very well since. The dad very quickly became the "not that bothered, anything goes" parent. He quickly found a new partner, who came with a young son in tow. And although he kept up with his 2 existing DDs, they became a bit of an afterthought.

He took DD2 away to one of the Greek islands (DD1 - my friend - was busy doing other things and didn't go) and just let her go and do whatever she wanted, while he was busy playing dad with family #2. One thing led to another, she was out every single night with older kids from the resort, and ended up losing her virginity on a sunbed to some random Greek dude she never saw again. From then on, she was uncontrollable. Sleeping with an endless procession of random, unsuitable men - even when she was back at her mums. She was pregnant by 16, and did start to calm down after her son was born.
Looking back now, we'd say she was raped, and there would probably be social services etc involved, plus a review of contact with dad. But this was like, 2001. It was just shrugged off as "X has gone off the rails."

OP, I'm glad you're looking out for your DD, because it doesn't sound like your ex is.

Why punish her because of her fathers poor parenting?

Most teenagers would stay out if they had an idiot parent who didn't give them a time to be in.

He's the problem, not her.

You need to keep her trust not alienate her.

Those saying don’t punish her- she switched off her location services, something she’d agreed to leave on, if she was going to the site with her father. So she does need punishing for doing that!

She add to my last post, by punishment I mean natural consequences, which for me would mean taking her phone away for a period of time.

I agree it's definitely too young to out all night. It's a difficult situation though because it's her dad's fault. The natural consequence would be to not be allowed to go to the holiday park again until she is 16 or whatever. I'm a pretty laid back parent but I would fuming at this.

Your punishments are not harsh and seem reasonable.
It should be sufficient to make her realise that she has crossed an important line. The line is about trusting that you do not make 'rules' just to limit her activities or to annoy her but because you wish to keep her safe.
Her Dad seems weak, and weak in understanding this point. Are there any other women in the family can assist you in getting that safety point across? An Aunt near her age or a Grandmother she will pay attention to.
You have plenty of advice already about how you tear her Dad to bits.

He sounds shit does he do this at his rgular home do you think

why would yu let a 14 year old wander around a town all night

Absolute nonsense, she's only just turned 14. It's a safeguarding concern and she's bloody right to be dealing with it. Anything could have happened to her.
OP I would find out about restricting overnight stays at dad's until she's older. Speak to a solicitor.

@LiquoriceAllsorts2

At 14 you certainly CAN have rules/agreements that apply no matter who she is with. Like leaving her location finder ON. It doesn't affect the time spent with the other parent. And you can have consequences for breaking those rules/agreements.

what's your agreement with her Dad re when he has her? If he has set times to have her, I don't think you can stop him taking her to the camp Park. But if it's a case of him randomly asking to take her, then you can say no.

I'd talk to her (again) tell her how unsafe it is (from non friends & from new friends) sexual assault/rape/spiked drinks, drugs. and it's not sensible no matter how old she is.

However, most of us have been there-done that & didn't listen. I lived just up the road, but my friend had a house right on the beach, they were very young themselves (having had my friend as teenage parents) and the weekends were always party central at theirs/the beach.

her parents were fine with us drinking and 'using' the bedrooms etc

meanwhile my parents thought I was just at my sensible friends with her lentil weaving parents.

i would be worried about my kids doing this, obviously, but I'm 54 & survived it. But it was our home town, not a holiday park with more unknowns

Did you do that at just turned 14 though? 17/18 maybe?

Those saying punish - firstly, that's not a good approach to separated parenting. Secondly, op has to consider whether there's a risk her daughter the. chooses to spend more time with lackadaisical/neglectful dad not less.

"Co" parenting with a negligent idiot is a minefield and there is no easy option for the op.

The best is to keep talking to the daughter and make sure she is a safety net when things go wrong. My son eventually chose not to see his dad after he realised how dreadfully he was putting him at risk...

Her father is failing her, and especially he is failing to take adequate care of her.

In your position my child would not be going to the holiday park again.