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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To have no time for ‘anti-human’ people?

214 replies

Myfavouritepenguin · 18/08/2023 13:09

I’ve seen it quite a lot recently- mostly on here rather than in real life admittedly. I’m referring to both the ‘I don’t like children people; I much prefer animals’ contingent as well as the ‘wouldn’t it be better if humans just died out’ approach.

I’ve been trying to pinpoint what it is that irks me, and I think it’s that this attitude seems like a slightly different version of “I’m not like other girls.” - an attempt to separate and elevate and basically look down on everyone else in your category.

The thing is, we are all human. Unless you are literally living off grid with wolves or whatever, you have not opted out of humanity. Whatever makes a human, that is what you are, and you are to some degree or other not only invested in but contributing to the whole operation, children and climate change included.

The answer to humanity’s ills and issues is not to reject everyone else who somehow isn’t as special and above humanity as these people seem to imagine they are!

OP posts:
SammyScrounge · 19/08/2023 12:16

TedMullins · 18/08/2023 13:14

I don’t think anyone who says that thinks they’re better or different to other humans. Of course they’re (we’re) still contributing to climate change, capitalism and all other modern ills. But it WOULD be better for the planet if humans as a species died out. I personally don’t understand why some people are so invested in thinking the human race must keep existing at all costs. Nobody has children for the altruistic purposes of furthering our species, it is an entirely selfish decision. Doesn’t make it wrong, but it is selfish!

It isn't selfish - it is the natural drive to procreate that affects every species of animal, bird, fish, crustacean, plant life and insect. No, we don't think altruistically of furthering our species. Old Mother Nature fills you with desire for a child and protectiveness of your young.
See a lioness playing with her cubs and looking after them so lovingly. See birds flying endlessly flying in and out of their nests to feed their chicks. See the bees buzzing from flower to flower, pollinating.
All the Natural World is geared towards reproduction and that includes us.

Q2C4 · 19/08/2023 13:34

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I don't disagree with you, but using that logic, nothing anyone chooses to do is altruistic.

daliesque · 19/08/2023 13:42

Why are people who choose not to have children so prickly about it? Why do you care?

I'm not prickly about my decision. I'm prickly about how we continue to be treated as less than by society. Go onto the childfree MN forum and read the thread about things that have been said to women like me and then come back and tell me I have no right to be pissed off at very real insults.

KimberleyClark · 19/08/2023 14:12

It isn't selfish - it is the natural drive to procreate that affects every species of animal, bird, fish, crustacean, plant life and insect. No, we don't think altruistically of furthering our species. Old Mother Nature fills you with desire for a child and protectiveness of your young.

Other species don't experience conscious desire for a child.They are instinctively driven to mate but do not make any connection between that and having offspring.

JudgeAnderson · 19/08/2023 14:14

Other species don't experience conscious desire for a child.Theyare instinctively driven to mate but do not make any connection between that and having offspring.

Right? If you've seen/heard cats or foxes shagging it's abundantly clear what sort of desire they're filled with and it's not for some cute kittens or cubs.

Mamette · 19/08/2023 15:04

JudgeAnderson · 19/08/2023 14:14

Other species don't experience conscious desire for a child.Theyare instinctively driven to mate but do not make any connection between that and having offspring.

Right? If you've seen/heard cats or foxes shagging it's abundantly clear what sort of desire they're filled with and it's not for some cute kittens or cubs.

You’re missing the point. The point is not that animals are like humans. It’s that humans are animals.

You can’t say that every part of human reproduction is a conscious choice, it has instinctive elements to it also.

Angrycat2768 · 19/08/2023 20:21

KimberleyClark · 19/08/2023 14:12

It isn't selfish - it is the natural drive to procreate that affects every species of animal, bird, fish, crustacean, plant life and insect. No, we don't think altruistically of furthering our species. Old Mother Nature fills you with desire for a child and protectiveness of your young.

Other species don't experience conscious desire for a child.They are instinctively driven to mate but do not make any connection between that and having offspring.

But the reason the desire to mate exists is because the sole purpose of all living beings is to survive and evolve. I doubt early man really had a desire for children. They had the desire to shag and then one day a baby popped out.

ItsNotRocketSalad · 19/08/2023 20:31

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Myfavouritepenguin · 19/08/2023 20:54

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Original poster
Myfavouritepenguin · 19/08/2023 20:59

@ItsNotRocketSalad

One more thing. What exactly did you mean by this?

3. You did in fact mean it but are backtracking because you realise how stupid it was.

Mean what? I’ve never claimed not to have meant my original points. In fact, many people have built on and developed these ideas; there has been reasoned discussion. Then you came along.

OP posts:
Myfavouritepenguin · 19/08/2023 21:00

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NeverEndingDays · 19/08/2023 21:05

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 14:11

YANBU. The whole "I hate other people" thing is so tedious. I always think somebody who can't seem to get along with anyone is likely to be the problem themselves.

Yes. Since the pandemic it’s become fashionable to say, ‘I hate people’. I always want to reply, ‘why do you dislike yourself so much?’

MNHQ
ClaraMumsnet · 19/08/2023 21:10

Hi - please remember our Talk Guidelines on personal attacks and bear these in mind when posting. We don't like to delete whole threads but if they become a nonsense due to the volume of deleted posts then we will have to.

Original poster
Myfavouritepenguin · 19/08/2023 21:11

Yes @ItsNotRocketSalad launched a personal attack on me but I see her post is still up.

OP posts:
FudgeSundae · 19/08/2023 21:13

Yes, I agree. I also hold the opinion (which appears to be unpopular and controversial but really shouldn’t be) that humanity is amazing. Intelligent life is exciting and important. Creativity and love and invention and teaching and etc. I can’t put it into words well enough but I marvel at the miracle of human intelligence and civilisation on a day to day basis. Of course it’s not perfect, but to me it’s a lot more meaningful than a planet of just plants and animals. Incidentally I do have children and watching them learn and grow daily is a wonderful privilege (but bloody hard work too). Humans are amazing. We could be better, of course.

Middlelanehogger · 19/08/2023 21:19

@FudgeSundae me too! I think it's amazing and incredible that sentient, conscious, intelligent life is here on this planet to observe and wonder and appreciate it all.

OP don't worry, your post was completely comprehensible...

NeverEndingDays · 19/08/2023 21:37

daliesque · 19/08/2023 13:42

Why are people who choose not to have children so prickly about it? Why do you care?

I'm not prickly about my decision. I'm prickly about how we continue to be treated as less than by society. Go onto the childfree MN forum and read the thread about things that have been said to women like me and then come back and tell me I have no right to be pissed off at very real insults.

It blows my mind that childfree people get insulted. Why? It has never occurred to me to think less of anyone who chooses not to have kids; I cannot see the logic. Some people truly are idiots.

JudgeAnderson · 19/08/2023 21:59

Yes, I agree. I also hold the opinion (which appears to be unpopular and controversial but really shouldn’t be) that humanity is amazing.

Humanity at its best can be amazing. But it can also be bloody awful. It's wonderful that you can watch your own children grow, develop and thrive but balanced against that there are young children in some countries living on the streets, 8 or 10 years old, selling their bodies to buy glue to sniff and for all our intelligence and compassion that doesn't get fixed.

Anyway it's all a moot point longer-term, species evolve and species go extinct, our time on the planet will probably be quite short in relation to its overall lifespan, whatever my personal opinion on the matter.

ItsNotRocketSalad · 19/08/2023 22:54

Myfavouritepenguin · 19/08/2023 21:11

Yes @ItsNotRocketSalad launched a personal attack on me but I see her post is still up.

Um no, I didn't. I pointed out that if a majority of people on a thread are taking the "wrong" meaning from your post then it's more likely you were unclear than they're all stupid.

I assume you didn't read it properly and concluded I was calling you stupid rather than the misunderstood point.

beccaskylar · 19/08/2023 23:30

I think you have far too much spare time on your hands.

Myfavouritepenguin · 20/08/2023 07:39

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Original poster
Myfavouritepenguin · 20/08/2023 07:41

And yes @ItsNotRocketSalad I know there are a couple of typos in my previous post. I’m sure you can just about decipher it, but please don’t bother to let me know if you can’t. Thanks.

OP posts:
Lovesacake · 20/08/2023 08:08

Op to be clear….are you saying that everyone who believes the human race is intrinsically harmful to the planet and it would be better if we were wiped out should immediately kill themselves or their opinion is null and void and should never be expressed?

Original poster
Myfavouritepenguin · 20/08/2023 08:19

Lovesacake · 20/08/2023 08:08

Op to be clear….are you saying that everyone who believes the human race is intrinsically harmful to the planet and it would be better if we were wiped out should immediately kill themselves or their opinion is null and void and should never be expressed?

🙄
Can you not see the difference between objectively acknowledging that humans have damaged the planet and professing to long for the extinction of the human race?

OP posts:
Lovesacake · 20/08/2023 09:31

Myfavouritepenguin · 20/08/2023 08:19

🙄
Can you not see the difference between objectively acknowledging that humans have damaged the planet and professing to long for the extinction of the human race?

Show quote history

Yes I can. So your position is that people who think the end of the human is ultimately a positive thing are allowed to express that opinion, it’s only people who say they are longing for it who should kill themselves or be silent?