To wonder if giving any breast milk is that important?

[Tiredstressedmum]

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m a FTM to a gorgeous ten day old.

Prior to delivery, DH and I did a lot of research into feeding. We both read a lot of studies and reached the conclusion that any potential benefits of BFing are likely to be marginal; we couldn’t find any conclusive swings in outcomes for BFing and found a lot of the outcomes were confounded out by factors such as socioeconomic status and parental behaviours. I reached the conclusion that I would try BFing but be quick to switch to formula if it wasn’t working for us, although secretly was confident it would work and I’d have one of those snuggly milky newborns all mumsnetters seem to have .

As it turned out, the birth did not go to plan and BFing was really hard; I don’t think LO ever had a feed (lots of latch issues) and was on top up formula from day 1. Feeding was becoming distressing for both of us and I could feel myself becoming very anxious, low and obsessive about it despite a lot of midwife support. On day four, DH bought formula and we had several days of bliss.

However, despite our previous research I felt (and still feel) wracked with guilt about being selfish and depriving LO of a good start. I decided to try pumping with good effect and have started replacing one or two bottles a day with breast milk. This sounds good in theory but LO is very unsettled after these feeds and ends up constantly crying (screaming) / taking top up breast milk until the next formula feed ‘resets’ her. I’m worried my attempts to assuage my own guilt are actually leaving her hungry and possibly causing digestive issues and discomfort.

I can’t find any information on how much breast milk is beneficial (have seen as low as 50 mL quoted a lot but no idea where this comes from) and whether my feeding regime is actually helping her in any way at all. AIBU to wonder whether giving her these bottles of breast milk is really helpful to her or whether I’m just complicating her feeding to make myself feel better?! It’s so psychologically difficult to be producing good milk for her and not giving it to her. Selfishly, I also fear judgement from other parents and professionals - I wish I could be wonderfully logical and rational like DH, who thinks formula is the best thing ever, but I’m just full of emotions and guilt and it’s stopping me enjoying my darling. Every time she cries (which is a fair bit because she’s a baby!) I end up crying too because I’m worried she’s hungry and I’ve deprived her, and DH ends up taking over.

OP, is your baby producing enough wet and dirty nappies? And gaining weight as expected?

If so you have enough "wiggle room" to experiment with feeding.

Why not try the breast before every feed for the day, she how it goes, if things get stressy. Go for the bottle, but you might find you can relax into it when you know it's not the end of the world if a feed doesn't go how you want?

Oh and I agree with others - please don't beat yourself up - being a first time mum is HARD! You do not need to give yourself additional pressure.

Honestly, after 6 months your baby will be eating all sorts, and after a year they will probably be on cows milk - this whole breastfeeding/formula thing is actually only for an astonishingly short period of their life.

Please know you are doing great - be kind to yourself.

Purely anecdotal but:
DC 1 - exclusively breastfed for over a year, went like a dream.
Dc2 and 3 ( twins) : DC2 not a drop of breast milk passed her lips. Despite all my efforts .DC3 combi fed for about a fortnight with expressed milk, until I fell apart emotionally over the sheer stress of it.

DC 1- fussy eater, always ill, riddled with allergies.
Dc2- eats anything, never ill, no allergies
Dc3 - fussy eater, fairly average health-wise
Oh and academically they were all on a par with each other, if anything dc3 is the brightest.
I'm not that sold on breastfeeding tbh.

Oh and you may find this episode of Radio 4's More or Less, they do a good analysis of studies that look at whether there is a link between breastfeeding and better exam results - spoiler alert - there isn't!

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/more-or-less-behind-the-stats/id267300884?i=1000617339766

Of all the things I didn't give a monkeys about when I decided to breastfeed my children, exam results were right up there at the top of the list. Honestly really who breastfeeds on the hope it's going to give their kids an edge on the eleven-plus?? Do these people exist? It's hardly a gotcha.

100% agree with this - I was (and am) just so bloody glad my dd was a healthy weight, breathing and (occasionally) sleeping. Never once thought smugly that my extended-breastfed toddler would do better in school 13 years from now (!) just vaguely hoped she might have fewer vomiting bugs in the early years

Hi, reading your messages you seem really tired, stressed and that you want to do everything the best way for your child which is great.

I wanted to but couldn't bf my two babies. With my first I felt really down about it. With my second I had the attitude that if it doesn't work we go to formula. My view was I wanted to enjoy this baby and not be stressed. I still spent most of the first month cuddled up on the sofa with my new born on my chest not feeding but bottle feeding on demand.

At ten days we had no feeding schedule - at that age she could be growth spurting so just feed as often as she asks. Even bottle fed babies can cluster feed and demand more milk even after a feed.

Good luck - and I would ditch the pumping and focus on you and your baby

I think it could be something in the breast milk (eg I once tried to be healthy by drinking banana juice and it caused my DS to scream with wind). Either way, just do whatever makes you and DD happy without any guilt or pressure.

I didn’t actually say anything you’re accusing me of?? I didn’t say it was up to the specialist to say ‘use formula’ didn I? Yes i reached out for help out of desperation as I wanted help with positioning/latching etc (as it was lockdown so had received fuck all help from anyone else), but the tube thing went too far for me personally.

Have we read the same post?? OP has literally said:

-She is not enjoying it
-Combi feeding is the worst of both worlds— She has accepted expressing is not for her

Your post is disgusting and not applicable to this thread.

’Lack of effort’ is not the issue. Quite the opposite infact. Breastfeeding does not work for everyone because of latching issues or lack of supply. OP is making a great deal of effort trying to pump, which is still not getting anywhere near the full supply (i had the same issue). Pumping is utterly exhausting and sometimes has a really negative impact on the mother’s wellbeing. It is twice the effort as you have to pump the milk and then feed it. Give us mothers some credit here.

Direct quote from OP below:

Instinctively, I don’t want to breastfeed but do want her to have my pumped milk. I just hope those two statements aren’t conflicting / selfish.

She doesn't want to breastfeed any more but she does want baby to have her pumped milk. Hard to be clearer than that really. What the hell are YOU reading that says she has accepted expressing is not for her?

See I may disagree with you on some things but this? 👏👏👏👏

Pumping is hard, it's hard on mothers. But sometimes it is what enables them to avoid something much harder, which is giving up on their strong desire to feed their babies their own milk. This is not a stupid wish, it is for some women an enormous drive and to have to give it up is utterly heartbreaking and can be even more injurious to their mental health than a pumping regime may be. It's about the individual woman, what matters most to her, what she needs, and what is possible. If the whole breastfeeding discussion started from that - what the mother wants - we'd have a lot less trouble with the debate. We'd have a lot fewer people 'trying' bf and giving up because it's not for them or they never really wanted to but felt they ought to, but feel judged for that and so have to give the impression bf was IMPOSSIBLE for them when in fact it simply was not what they wanted; we'd have a lot fewer mothers forcing themselves to try to do the impossible with insufficient supply or insurmountable latch issues, harming themselves and their babies long past the point where this was what they wanted; we'd have a lot fewer mothers being told to give up at the first sign of trouble because bf 'doesn't make any difference [to the baby]', when it makes an absolutely massive difference to her because she's desperate to bf.

I mean honestly, women being made to feel selfish for bf, women being made to feel selfish for not bf - all this headfucking and statistics-waving and emotional blackmail on both sides, when in fact where the conversation should start is what the mother wants, what's important to her, and how to get as close to that as possible. It goes without saying that for the vast, vast majority of mothers, that starts with their baby being healthy and happy, because no-one cares about the baby's wellbeing like its mother does. The idea that the mother's interests and the baby's are in any way pitted against each other is a fabrication from both sides. They are a dyad, and the mother is the one best placed to decide the best direction for that dyad - if she is empowered and supported to do so.

Another direct quote from the P @MariaVT65 - really don't know where you got the idea she isn't happy with pumping:

Nothing else is going right but I’m finding pumping very easy and producing good quantities now, I’d love to be able to get it into her.

I would be very suspicious of any ‘research’ purporting to show that formula milk is better than breast milk. Breast milk has evolved over millions of years and been going as long as mammals have. Formula milk, weirdly enough, has definite known and proven benefits for the manufacturers and shareholders of private companies providing formula milk. They have been known to try and push their costly artificial milk before, at the expense of human health, as have many other private companies. Breastmilk is so convenient too. It can be difficult to start, but is definitely worth pursuing until / unless it is really too painful to continue.

No I will not fuck off. A single day of breastfeeding is not effort. If a mother doesn't want to make the effort, that's a valid choice, and I don't judge. But a single day of anything is not what I would consider effort.
I've formula fed and breastfed, so I can assure you I don't judge either way.

I think I see both points of view in this debate - I agree with the pps saying it's not a lack of effort on op's part. Expressing is so so labour intensive. She's clearly putting a lot of time, thought, research and effort into feeding her baby.

However I'd agree that women in the uk do give up too quickly, through overthinking and bad advice. There are actually low-effort things mums can try to help (like the traditional postpartum confinement aka vegging out that I keep pushing haha), but mums shouldn't expect instant success. It's slow and frustrating and I agree, one day is too short a timescale.

Of course it's different if there are severe birth injuries. I myself had sepsis after my emcs, I was so so ill. That's why I'm an evangelical fan of mixed feeding. No one wants their baby to starve or languish underfed while they're working out how to do breastfeeding.

But severe birth injuries, on their own, can't explain the extraordinarily low breastfeeding rates in this country. Nor can we put it down merely to "choice": I know very few mums who chose from day 1 never to breastfeed: I know many uk mums, like op, who wanted to breastfeed but struggled and switched to FF sooner than they wanted to.

Other things that I'm evangelical about, that are low effort:

1. No bras in the first month or so. Bras and breastfeeding don't mix. It's a fast track to engorgement, uneven emptying, and even mastitis. When going out, just wear a loose top/vest with no bra.

1. Lounging about topless with the newborn baby, even walking around the house.

Both of the above are totally standard in other cultures when postpartum. But for some reason considered gross or even exhibitionist in this country.

Several of the mum friends I know who had to give up BF sooner than they wanted, did so because of severe mastitis.

It all contributes to the low BF rates here.

To give you an example, I live in a part of London with a high proportion of afro-caribbean heritage families. On the postnatal ward at hospital there were several mums of this heritage walking around the ward topless, even to the kitchenette etc, with the newborn under one arm, feeding on and off. (One of them was my next bed neighbour and we chatted.) It's really the best way to do it! I'd never seen it before but I felt kind of inspired and it helped me have a bit of confidence feeding in the first few days. But I've seen on mumsnet threads that some mums think this is exhibitionism, they'd no doubt accuse those mums of showing off to any male doctors (eye roll)

I'm not accusing you of anything. You saw a feeding specialist who suggested a supplementary nursing system, and you called it 'utterly ridiculous'. When a pp pointed out that it's a shame to ridicule a legitimate and helpful technique, you justified it by saying that it was ridiculous for you because it needed to be acknowledged that at some point a mother needs to rest and use formula. While that in itself is a valid opinion, it wasn't up to the feeding specialist to acknowledge that, when they had been hired to help you with breastfeeding.

OK, sorry. I was saying that I thought it was a very good way to do it. Maybe it was just those mums.

In any case, where I'm from in SE Asia its normal to do postpartum confinement which includes being as naked as you like, and not showering as often as usual

Just to clarify the lack of effort comments - I didn’t give up on day one. I really wasn’t able to attempt to establish feeding after the section. I had a PPH, blood pressure issues and was whacked out by the drugs. She had formula in her before I even really realised and DH was of course going to agree with the midwives and HCPs who had directly assessed our baby. I then tried feeding pre Giving formula for the best part of a week and was getting to a very dark place. I took the decision that the attempts were futile because I was already so anxious and worked up pre each feed and I felt it was preventing me bonding with my daughter. I struggled with positions due to the section and just generally feeling exhausted and a bit shell shocked. I know I could have tried harder but I just felt my mental health slipping and also knew that I was unlikely to establish feeding in the context of such a stressed mum and hungry baby. I’m really grateful for those who have given kind unjudgemental advice on how feeding could be re established but this is not for me right now. So I do accept I could physically have out more effort in but I certainly didn’t try once and give up! We’ve had so many observed feeds, spoke to breastfeeding advisors in hospital etc, tried with and without shields. I just didn’t detail all of that as I’m happy to own the decision that I don’t want to try her back on the breast and really just wanted to know whether she was going to get particular benefits from adding my pumped milk or whether I was just doing it to make myself feel better. I’m grateful for all advice both ways and completely agree with those who feel there isn’t great support and mums give up early. If I’d known what I know now I’d have gone in a lot more prepared. Postpartum is such a vulnerable time and the hormones, anxiety and physical effects of birth can make it very hard to remain calm and in control when struggling to feed your child. Formula provided us instant relief.