To wonder if giving any breast milk is that important?

[Tiredstressedmum]

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m a FTM to a gorgeous ten day old.

Prior to delivery, DH and I did a lot of research into feeding. We both read a lot of studies and reached the conclusion that any potential benefits of BFing are likely to be marginal; we couldn’t find any conclusive swings in outcomes for BFing and found a lot of the outcomes were confounded out by factors such as socioeconomic status and parental behaviours. I reached the conclusion that I would try BFing but be quick to switch to formula if it wasn’t working for us, although secretly was confident it would work and I’d have one of those snuggly milky newborns all mumsnetters seem to have .

As it turned out, the birth did not go to plan and BFing was really hard; I don’t think LO ever had a feed (lots of latch issues) and was on top up formula from day 1. Feeding was becoming distressing for both of us and I could feel myself becoming very anxious, low and obsessive about it despite a lot of midwife support. On day four, DH bought formula and we had several days of bliss.

However, despite our previous research I felt (and still feel) wracked with guilt about being selfish and depriving LO of a good start. I decided to try pumping with good effect and have started replacing one or two bottles a day with breast milk. This sounds good in theory but LO is very unsettled after these feeds and ends up constantly crying (screaming) / taking top up breast milk until the next formula feed ‘resets’ her. I’m worried my attempts to assuage my own guilt are actually leaving her hungry and possibly causing digestive issues and discomfort.

I can’t find any information on how much breast milk is beneficial (have seen as low as 50 mL quoted a lot but no idea where this comes from) and whether my feeding regime is actually helping her in any way at all. AIBU to wonder whether giving her these bottles of breast milk is really helpful to her or whether I’m just complicating her feeding to make myself feel better?! It’s so psychologically difficult to be producing good milk for her and not giving it to her. Selfishly, I also fear judgement from other parents and professionals - I wish I could be wonderfully logical and rational like DH, who thinks formula is the best thing ever, but I’m just full of emotions and guilt and it’s stopping me enjoying my darling. Every time she cries (which is a fair bit because she’s a baby!) I end up crying too because I’m worried she’s hungry and I’ve deprived her, and DH ends up taking over.

Thanks so much for all the replies. I’ve had a bit of time to relax and read now after being very emotional this morning.

I’d like to be clear and state I absolutely do believe breast is best on a population level. I just meant what I’ve read so far doesn’t convince me that not BFing will be disastrous to DD’s health. I wasn’t looking to rubbish BFing at all (and definitely not to state FF is better as someone stated!!). I really just wanted to know if there was any benefit in giving her some over none as I’ve accepted that EBF just isn’t for me.

I also am aware the ‘fussiness’ after expressed milk is probably due to the different digestion rates etc and that naturally she’d be taking it in cluster feeds, not one drink. This is why I’m finding combination hard and wanted to know if it’s worth it for her. If it’s worth it, I’ll do anything to make it work. The hind milk is a very good point though, as is trying it out on a feed when she’s not already ravenous.

DH comments useful also. He’s been beyond hands on and far more confident than I am. He does want me to stop pumping but only because he thinks I’m getting very upset and formula is fine for her. He’s got no ulterior motive beyond our happiness and is frustrated at how guilty I am feeling (although really that’s come from within as everyone has been very supportive to me). I think I’d feel better if I could give her some milk. Nothing else is going right but I’m finding pumping very easy and producing good quantities now, I’d love to be able to get it into her.

To those suggesting a final attempt at BFing - I just don’t want to. I feel so guilty admitting it but do need to as it makes it easier to make onward plans. I find it incredibly stressful and just have a block around the whole thing now. I know she’ll be frustrated as taking from the breast is less easy than a bottle and I’m just not strong enough to work through that frustration with her.

And don't let posters like @Dinoswearunderpants influence you OP!

I wish I could be wonderfully logical and rational like DH, who thinks formula is the best thing ever

Ahh it's this bit isn't it. I see what you mean now @NeverDropYourMooncup !

OP, there's nothing logical about raising babies, it's about biology and love. Logic comes in later! But right now your body and your baby's are trying to engage in a delicate dance that's been designed by millions of years of evolution to provide an optimal outcome for both of you. There's instinct, and there's learning, and you two are doing it together. It's hard to listen to that music if someone else is playing a different tune loudly in the background. So if what your DH is suggesting/implementing feels wrong to you, or doesn't chime with your instincts, it's OK t pull rank and insist on listening to those instincts and to your baby. No-one will want and need her to be happy and healthy like you do; so trust yourself when you feel like you know what she needs. Don't be afraid to try different things, to go back on a 'plan', to adapt. You know her. She's yours. You have this.

I see threads like this constantly on mn…. I live in Ireland and breastfeeding is boarder line extinct here , they produce formula in Ireland so there’s a big formula lobby here.
You are in the majority op if you live in the us or Ireland. There’s no correlation or connection between breast milk and formula.
Formula is a highly processed food that in it’s origin is from an animal and species completely different to a human, that milk is usually from a cow (which often is treated with antibiotics etc ) and then processed into formula with added vitamins.
Breastmilk is milk from a human to a human baby , it has antibodies, it changes when a mother comes into contact with illnesses to protect the baby. I had raging tonsillitis when I had bf my baby (usually contagious) , their little brother had chicken pox ; both times they didn’t catch it as more than likely my breast milk adapted itself when it came into contact with those virus’s and protected the baby . Breast-feeding can offer a mother some protection against breast cancer and ovarian cancer (maybe not hugely but any little helps 🤷‍♀️) and helps prevent against sids for baby and helps to regulate babies breathing.
Formula doesn’t do any of those things above , it feeds the baby and obviously vital in keeping babies alive if a mother can’t feed a baby which in nature is actually pretty rare as otherwise the human race would have died out by now… Formula increase the chances of obesity even in later life, formula is huge in Ireland , we have one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in Europe if not the world , the vast majority of people here are overweight-possibly connected as formula has been dominant here for 50 years.
Of course you can say there’s minimal advantage to bf , you’ll get loads anecdotes on here backing you up and saying formula makes no different and their kids are fine blah blah.
I mean I know plenty of people who smoke and drink for years and they are fine or for a more direct comparison people who eat way more processed junk food than organic, natural, healthy food and they are also absolutely fine so why should people care and is it all a myth ? Obviously not on a scientific, population level ….

This was a lovely reply and made
me cry. DH read it too. It’s so hard not to treat this whole thing like a project and become obsessive. Maybe a bit more instinct and a bit less research is what we need here! Instinctively, I don’t want to breastfeed but do want her to have my pumped milk. I just hope those two statements aren’t conflicting / selfish.

Op re pumping (in case this is a concern ) I ebf all three of my dcs but pumping was extremely difficult and I produced almost no milk despite them feeding loads directly from the breast . Often pumping milk is no indication of how much milk is being produced. And breastfed babies need way more frequent feeding than formula fed babies generally, there’s a lot more watery (fore milk in breast milk ) there’s no foremilk/ hind milk in formula

To those suggesting a final attempt at BFing - I just don’t want to. I feel so guilty admitting it but do need to as it makes it easier to make onward plans. I find it incredibly stressful and just have a block around the whole thing now. I know she’ll be frustrated as taking from the breast is less easy than a bottle and I’m just not strong enough to work through that frustration with her.

OP that is fine. You can just say you don't want to, you don't have to justify it or muddle yourself inside out reading this or that and asking Mumsnet. If you don't want to breastfeed, you don't have to, you never did.

Re the frustration, just my own story. I breastfed DD1 exclusively until she was 2.5 (had a hard 6 weeks or so getting established, injured nipples etc, very upsetting at the time as I'd had an unwanted C-section so put a lot of pressure on myself to get breastfeeding 'right' but now looking back I see my experience was very normal in itself, just i got a bit overwrought as first time mum). So When I was expecting to find BF much easier, knew what I was doing etc.

She wouldn't latch. absolutely WOULD NOT. I tried every trick I knew, and she HATED it. I was distraught giving her formula for the first time. I pumped (like you I had a good and ready supply). She was exclusively fed on pumped breastmilk from a bottle from day 3 onwards. I was gutted. Pumping was inconvenient (until I found a handsfree pump that worked for me) and bottle warming, bottle washing, pump washing, sterilising, blah blah was a NIGHTMARE, I found it so annoying after the ease of bf DD1 - so I never quite gave up on bf, even months in. I started trying the method I described overnight, just trying to 'trick' her onto the breast when she was half asleep - sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, and then suddenly somehow at 4 months all her night feeds were from the breast. Slooooowly slowly some day feeds crept in - usually around naptimes, again when she was sleepy. And then one day when she was about 9 months old, she shoved away the bottle every time I tried to give it to her and climbed me like a tree and that was that 😆She got it at last. Either her mouth got bigger or my flow got more regular or it just clicked, but she's still feeding now at 2.5 and doesn't want to stop (I do!!! 😛).

I'm not saying all this in a 'don't give up!' scolding way. Just that it's hard now (god you're 10 days in, EVERYTHING is hard never mind feeding). But I am saying it won't always necessarily be hard, and to keep your options open.

I was traumatized by the pressure to bfeed. Recovery form a c section, new born baby, no family help and pressure to breastfeed??

Fed is best. And formula is fine.

As the top says, there are no statistics that say that breastfed babies/adults are higher achieving or whatever, as it's simply not proven.

They are not remotely conflicting or selfish ❤️ you so clearly love your baby, she has two loving involved parents who take the time to research and worry and talk about what's best for her. She is going to be 110% fine OP. Just make sure you are too xx

Not sure your post is entirely accurate, especially your point about breastfeeding issues being ‘rare otherwise the human race would have died out’. There were so many more infant deaths before formula, and there was a reason why wet nurses existed.

OP, well done for making the best decision for you :)

From someone whose pnd was rapidly worsened through struggling to breast feed, if you want to formula feed please just do that. Honestly don't put yourself through an ordeal, it's hard enough with a newborn let alone making yourself struggle with feeding too. A fed baby is a happy baby, no matter the style, good luck op 😁

Just fed what works for you. For the record I choose to ff DD as my dsis regretted bf as she got severe pna and didn't bond with dn until at six months she stopped bf. I'm happy with my decision and have a very healthy dd. I've friends who bf no problem and very happy with their decision. Different baby, different mum ...as long as baby is fed. That's all that matters. Do what works for you!!!!!! Congratulations on your baby x

Congratulations on baby. Is baby allergic to anything that you're eating that could be unsettling them? A friend of mine who breastfed realised that baby was allergic to cows milk so she had to change her diet, after she switched and went dairy free baby was absolutely fine with breast milk.

If you still want her to have breastmilk pump and freeze it and just give it in her bottles. Or save for when you wean her? Could be latch issues taking wind when feeding straight from the breast. Also breast milk is easier digested so they tend to feed little and often. Have you considered that around this age there's a growth spurt so may be fussy anyways.

@Dinoswearunderpants

Think of it simplistically, you're body has created a life, it has grown that life then born that life. It then has the ability to continue nurturing and growing that life by feeding it... why would you choose to provide something created in a factory over your own body with the required nutrients and antibodies.

My DC (born/unborn) were made in a lab and were (and due to be) born in a theatre. I did manage to BF, but wondered how you felt simplistically about my DC having/due to life thanks to technology/‘factory’ conditions?

You needed help to create them but they still grew inside you.

Did you also not breastfeed then?

Erm, no the benefits of breastfeeding are proven. It's just that it's not as black and white as saying if you don't breastfeed, your child will be doomed.

Breastfeeding is one of many things you can do to benefit your child's health and development.

It's not the be-all and end-all but that doesn't mean there's no difference between breastfeeding and formula feeding.

@Dinoswearunderpants my body couldn’t create or birth a baby. It could BF funnily enough and hopefully if my baby is ok it will be able to again.

You seemed to be asking why someone would feed factory products instead of their body doing its job.

I wondered how you felt about it all when a body (mind and physical) doesn’t do its job?

I am aware some who berate mothers for not BF would also berate for C-sections/IVF and all the modern day things that keep us alive and healthy.

Like FF.

This.

Fed isn't best. Informed is best imo

I'm sorry but I've seen benefits with breastfeeding my son. There's nothing wrong with formula but breastmilk is better for baby.

Instinct and emotions can be hacked - your body might need to have the baby near or at least in earshot and crying in order to get the letdown reflex, or you need to be peaceful and relaxed rather than panicking over her crying to get it to happen. I found a long drink and shrug of the shoulders triggered it. Similarly, I needed a second drink and shrug to get hindmilk at times - but I could never pump more than a tiny amount, my body just took No Baby = Don't letdown, I'd tense up and it would stop altogether.

I EBF the first and moved my second onto FF sooner because that was my preference and my decision. The ex's opinions and confidence was very convincing with the eldest, but he had no idea of the emotional and physical side because all he saw was Baby crying, must feed it. Like I said, that part of the experience can't be quantified, but is the most important bit - how you feel.

There is no democracy with the mother of a newborn. As long as she isn't endangering the baby or herself, what she says goes. And that means he needs to show confidence in you, not only in his opinions.

Jesus Christ. We are talking here about women who can’t (at least fully) breastfeed their babies because the baby won’t latch or we can’t produce enough milk! So fed is best when we don’t have any other option. It’s damn appropriate when we don’t have enough breastmilk to give our babies.

Literally no breastfeeding advocate ever would say that in the absence of sufficient breastmilk a baby shouldn't be fed formula. None of them. At all. Fed is necessary. Formula if prepared correctly is a safe and nutritionally adequate food for an infant. All of this is understood by anyone with even a passing interest in the subject of infant feeding. No-one is saying if you can't breastfeed your baby/don't want to breastfeed your baby you should simply let it starve. So 'Fed is best' is the most nonsense meaningless slogan I have ever ever heard and mothers have to hear it all the time now. It treats mothers as if they are stupid, and have no comprehension of degrees or nuance. 'Fed is best' is the 'take back control' of infant feeding - a three word slogan designed to inflame and manipulate.