To wonder if giving any breast milk is that important?

[Tiredstressedmum]

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m a FTM to a gorgeous ten day old.

Prior to delivery, DH and I did a lot of research into feeding. We both read a lot of studies and reached the conclusion that any potential benefits of BFing are likely to be marginal; we couldn’t find any conclusive swings in outcomes for BFing and found a lot of the outcomes were confounded out by factors such as socioeconomic status and parental behaviours. I reached the conclusion that I would try BFing but be quick to switch to formula if it wasn’t working for us, although secretly was confident it would work and I’d have one of those snuggly milky newborns all mumsnetters seem to have .

As it turned out, the birth did not go to plan and BFing was really hard; I don’t think LO ever had a feed (lots of latch issues) and was on top up formula from day 1. Feeding was becoming distressing for both of us and I could feel myself becoming very anxious, low and obsessive about it despite a lot of midwife support. On day four, DH bought formula and we had several days of bliss.

However, despite our previous research I felt (and still feel) wracked with guilt about being selfish and depriving LO of a good start. I decided to try pumping with good effect and have started replacing one or two bottles a day with breast milk. This sounds good in theory but LO is very unsettled after these feeds and ends up constantly crying (screaming) / taking top up breast milk until the next formula feed ‘resets’ her. I’m worried my attempts to assuage my own guilt are actually leaving her hungry and possibly causing digestive issues and discomfort.

I can’t find any information on how much breast milk is beneficial (have seen as low as 50 mL quoted a lot but no idea where this comes from) and whether my feeding regime is actually helping her in any way at all. AIBU to wonder whether giving her these bottles of breast milk is really helpful to her or whether I’m just complicating her feeding to make myself feel better?! It’s so psychologically difficult to be producing good milk for her and not giving it to her. Selfishly, I also fear judgement from other parents and professionals - I wish I could be wonderfully logical and rational like DH, who thinks formula is the best thing ever, but I’m just full of emotions and guilt and it’s stopping me enjoying my darling. Every time she cries (which is a fair bit because she’s a baby!) I end up crying too because I’m worried she’s hungry and I’ve deprived her, and DH ends up taking over.

@Tiredstressedmum Hi OP, really sorry you are having such a rubbish time of it all. is there any way you could consult your midwife/health visitor and ask for a referral to a breastfeeding nurse. a lot of success in terms of breastfeeding can be down to trying different techniques until finding one right for your baby. it can take time to establish feeding.

you are the one going through all this, so only you know how distressing it is for you and baby. if its really too much, it's OK to switch to formula. bit try getting some more help first. maybe look into private breast feeding nurses if you can't easily access one on NHS?

does it make a difference? well breast milk designed for your baby by your body and gives him immunity and the exact nutrition he needs. but does it make enough of a difference in the long term for you to put yourself through hell? probably not

as long as baby is fed and you get a little bit of rest and peace of mind - it's all good.

you've just done something amazing and brought life into the world. there is nothing for you to be guilty or ashamed about. hope you feel better. x

@Tiredstressedmum

Please don’t feel like you have to justify yourself or explain to some of the responses here. X

I was you. I made a very rational decision pre-birth that I wasn’t that hung up on breast feeding but I’d give it a go and if it worked, great, but if not we’d use formula. Post birth was a different story! He had a tongue tie, my nipples were destroyed, he wasn’t latching properly, I was exhausted and breast feeding was so distressing - for both of us. I tried pumping and it just didn’t work for me. But despite all this and despite the decision I’d made pre birth I found the decision to stop trying to bf so upsetting and emotional, it really took me by surprise. I just couldn’t keep going the way I was though, and once the decision was actually made and we were using formula I felt SUCH a weight off my shoulders. Suddenly all those upsetting and traumatising interactions with my baby around feeding were gone and I could enjoy him more.

I’ve never doubted it for a moment since. Trust your gut (and also trust the research you did when you were thinking more clearly, no need to do it again) and let go of the guilt and do what’s right for you x

I honestly believe that what you feed your child up until they make their own decisions about what they eat is hugely important. My kids always tease me about the lack of biscuits/sweets/chocolates/ low nutrition snacks on offer in our house when they were younger.

give your baby formula if you need to. Graduate to cows milk and plenty of green veg and all kinds of protein. Nuts, beans. Water. Forget juice and fizzy drinks. Real food. Christmas and birthdays, all bets are off. Your baby will be fine.

Sorry i think what you’re missing here is the inbetween, which is what i went through and what this thread is about. Yes there are women who choose not to breastfeed, and women who choose to breastfeed and it mostly goes fine. What this thread is about is a situation where a mother is trying to breastfeed and it’s not working. These women need support too.

I honestly think some people are missing the actual tone and topic of this thread. This is not a question of OP making an active choice not to breastfeed. It is a situation where the attempted breastfeeding is not working, through no fault of OP’s (i’ve also been there). OP is knackered because expressing milk is bloody exhausting and twice the work, and is secretly asking for justification to stop expressing milk for her wellbeing and sanity, with some concerns about her baby. Therefore, the whole ‘breast milk is the most amazing thing ever’ is not helpful in this scenario. OP should not be guilted into continuing to exhaust herself into a stupor by expressing milk. People need to have a consideration for mothers as well as babies.

But what they need (in the first instance at least) to breastfeed. Because they want to, and it's important to them. Not be told "don't bother, it doesn't matter, fed is best, and you only want to breastfeed in the first place because you've been bullied and brainwashed by the "breastfeeding mafia"". It's incredibly invalidating.

Sorry first sentence should have read "what they need (in the first instance at least) is support to breastfeed."

Actually it's you who has missed the point and tone. OP has explicitly said she doesn't want to breastfeed any more but DOES want to keep pumping and giving her DD milk. That's what SHE wants. But you'd rather paint your narrative of the poof beleaguered mother onto her instead of listening to what she's saying and dealing with that.

It's not selfish to express breastmilk, of course not - it's very much the hardest of the three ways to feed and arguably the worst of both worlds in terms of the mum's well being (so the opposite of selfish, I mean!)

I saw in your previous post before this one that you feel daunted by trying to latch. Please do consider the vegging out for a few days thing I suggested, it's what they do in many cultures, just lounging about with your baby and trying different feeding positions while watching TV and being fed grapes by your DH or whoever. You can put yourself under no pressure whatsoever- I myself started combi feeding with about 90% formula and 10% BF, gradually reversing that ratio over the course of a few months. Sometimes in the early days I latched only for a few seconds then gave up in pain and gave the bottle - but I'm glad I kept going with it because DD kept BF for 2.5+ years and it became as easy as walking by the end.

But expressing (imo) is a sure fire way to resentment, burnout and misery for the mum. I just don't think the benefits are worth the cost of your time, labour and distress. I really suggest your mood will instantly uplift when you shelve the pumps

See now I disagree with this too - as long as you have a good supply and respond well to the pump, expressing can be a real boon to a mum who wants to bf and it's not working out - you can still give your baby some of your milk, and you avoid the vile hormonal crash that comes when your milk supply goes (for some women anyway,not all women are alike). Takes the "timer" off getting latch to take, alleviates fear of "drying up", can help remove the paranoia you haven't got enough milk and that's why baby won't feed etc.

Crucial to find a hands free pump that works for you though. I HATED being chained to a chair when I had so much to do and wanted to be doing things with my baby and my eldest. Hands free in bra pump was a game changer!

Haven't RTFT but has anybody said nipple shields? Could be a game changer for getting her to latch on.

Good post

Has baby been checked for a tongue tie?

Why would you not give your baby a food that is so clever it can even produce the right antbodies for when your baby is ill?
Breadt milk is best. People seem scared to say that because they don't want to upset new mums.
Perhaps if it were made clearer people would put more effort in. Because it does take effort but once established it has to be the most rewarding wonderful experience for mother and baby.

Having two widely different experiences...

DD1 ebf 10 days

DD2 ebf 6 months followed by 5 years bf

I would say the lasting benefits have been from breastfeeding not breast milk. It's the mental health benefits of natural term bf that have remained. That is the clearest difference between my DC.

Having said that, DD2 was allergic to 11 foods at weaning and through natural term bf exposure she is no longer allergic to all 11.

Yes, I agree and came on to say this. It's called a supplemental nursing system, and can work wonders.

Why would anyone tell a new mum that the baby needed a formula top up, when she was trying to breast feed, on "day 1"? What milk could she have on day 1, it hasn't come in yet!
The advice dishes out to women really sucks sometimes.

But you were the one who approached the feeding specialist yourself, or at least accepted the referal? Of course they would then try to help you. It's not up to them to acknowledge that you need to switch to formula, as presumably they assumed you were seeking help with breastfeeding?

Yes! Ime no professor will ever recommend them, but definitely worth a try before giving up. My 2nd destroyed my nipples, so I used nippple shields. Weaned off them by 6 weeks and he fed almost 2 years.

Professional not professor

Professor of breastfeeding 😀
OP your dh seems to have far too much of a say in this imho. His role is to support you not to push you.

Your last statement struck me OP. It's not selfish for you to want your baby to have breast milk if it's delivered my bottle, either mixed or on its own.

Breastfeeding worked for me for convenience and I was lucky. You have inadvertently set yourself up with the worst of all worlds. Doing all options is logistically more difficult and stressful. Any changes in baby you relate back to feeding. If breast feeding is not for you, that's absolutely fine. I'm not a scientist, but I work with Early Years children and the factors that influence a child would not have breastfeeding on the long list never mind the short list.

Feed your child however suits you, but make your choice and be at peace with it. These are precious days and weeks you will zoom through. And having a stressed mummy is a bigger worry to your baby than what's in the bottle. Good luck, and enjoy. X

I felt just like you, I felt like a failure at the time and it consumed my mind. It seems such a huge deal but when your children are past 12months it’s a nothing, you will never think about it again and nobody I’ll ask how you fed your 6year old. Please make this issue small in your mind as it such a minor thing in all honesty.

DD would accept formula from a bottle but not breast milk.

Perhaps baby associates the taste of breastmilk with breastfeeding directly, especially the non nutritive sucking element of sucking for comfort, and is unsettled because she wants that?

Its bizarre for a baby to require more breastmilk than formula as formula is specifically designed the have the same calorie, fat etc content as breastmilk.

Since you've still got milk supply, you could try offering the breast as well as formula. None of the pressure or worrying if she's fed and lots of babies get much better at latching a couple of weeks after they are born - you might find it easier and pleasant now