To wonder if giving any breast milk is that important?

[Tiredstressedmum]

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m a FTM to a gorgeous ten day old.

Prior to delivery, DH and I did a lot of research into feeding. We both read a lot of studies and reached the conclusion that any potential benefits of BFing are likely to be marginal; we couldn’t find any conclusive swings in outcomes for BFing and found a lot of the outcomes were confounded out by factors such as socioeconomic status and parental behaviours. I reached the conclusion that I would try BFing but be quick to switch to formula if it wasn’t working for us, although secretly was confident it would work and I’d have one of those snuggly milky newborns all mumsnetters seem to have .

As it turned out, the birth did not go to plan and BFing was really hard; I don’t think LO ever had a feed (lots of latch issues) and was on top up formula from day 1. Feeding was becoming distressing for both of us and I could feel myself becoming very anxious, low and obsessive about it despite a lot of midwife support. On day four, DH bought formula and we had several days of bliss.

However, despite our previous research I felt (and still feel) wracked with guilt about being selfish and depriving LO of a good start. I decided to try pumping with good effect and have started replacing one or two bottles a day with breast milk. This sounds good in theory but LO is very unsettled after these feeds and ends up constantly crying (screaming) / taking top up breast milk until the next formula feed ‘resets’ her. I’m worried my attempts to assuage my own guilt are actually leaving her hungry and possibly causing digestive issues and discomfort.

I can’t find any information on how much breast milk is beneficial (have seen as low as 50 mL quoted a lot but no idea where this comes from) and whether my feeding regime is actually helping her in any way at all. AIBU to wonder whether giving her these bottles of breast milk is really helpful to her or whether I’m just complicating her feeding to make myself feel better?! It’s so psychologically difficult to be producing good milk for her and not giving it to her. Selfishly, I also fear judgement from other parents and professionals - I wish I could be wonderfully logical and rational like DH, who thinks formula is the best thing ever, but I’m just full of emotions and guilt and it’s stopping me enjoying my darling. Every time she cries (which is a fair bit because she’s a baby!) I end up crying too because I’m worried she’s hungry and I’ve deprived her, and DH ends up taking over.

Unhelpful and wrong.

Although I suppose I'm in the pro-breastfeeding "camp" I agree strongly with everyone who says expressing is a nightmare.

Many of the benefits of breastfeeding are from direct breastfeeding: you secrete an oil from the areola which has benefits which is lost when expressing. The oxytocin from bodily contact - this has benefits that have been studied in babies. Your body also feels the temperature of the baby (whether he is sweaty or hot skin etc) and the viscosity and dilution of your milk alters in real time, in a similar mechanism (and concurrently) with you producing sweat.

Expressing is not done in real time so you don't get the real time changes in consistency. Expressing hasn't got the same bodily contact. You don't pass the areola oils through the pumps. Expressing machines are hard to clean and can harbour traces of mould etc.

Finally of course, expressing is time consuming, stressful and painful, and yields frustratingly low amounts.

In short, I am absolutely not a fan of expressing and wouldn't recommend it to anyone at the newborn stage- only when returning to work, expressing in your lunch break to prevent engorgement.

My advice to op: bin the pumps. If you want to, have a last-ditch go at my "veg out" technique described above - aka traditional postpartum confinement - or don't. Then, please formula feed without feeling the need to rubbish the WHO or the benefits of breastfeeding.

These posts are so polarising and the smug people on both sides always ruin it. I’ve BF both my babies and feeding the first is probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I probably should have FF her. The second was slightly easier.

Here’s the point: BF isn’t easy for 99% of people. Professionals (NCT particularly 👀) need to stop perpetuating the myth that babies and mothers naturally know what to do, latch is perfect and everything goes swimmingly. Those who breastfeed do it because they believe it is the best thing for their baby, despite the fact it’s hard.

You won’t find BF mothers telling you there’s no benefit over formula. The “research” you will have read will have been paid for by formula companies. Boobs don’t have research or marketing budgets. You will find FF mothers telling you their kids are absolutely fine on formula, which they are. You cannot tell the difference between a FF and a BF kid, believe me. You should feed however you want feed.

So @Babdoc confounding factors mean you can't say breastfeeding is beneficial

On the other hand boomers being majority formula fed must mean that's fine, no whopping massive confounding factors like the founding of the NHS, agricultural reforms that made food more affordable and available, removal of toxins like lead, asbestos, coal etc from the environment, improvements in healthcare, better housing, etc etc

74% of deaths worldwide are now related to non-communicable disease like stroke, heart disease, diabetes, obesity rather than communicable disease like tuberculosis, cholera, measles etc

We need strategies to address non-communicable disease and that includes encouraging breastfeeding, not least because it is linked to lower rates of obesity later on. It's not the one and only thing but it is important.

It's great your kids are doing well, but these things are best looked at on a statistical level. I've read those studies, they conclude that breastfeeding is valuable and makes a difference. It's not the only thing but it is important.

Amen 🙏

Oh and I absolutely agree with the “veg out” suggestions above. Strip baby down to a nappy, snuggle him/her and sit on the sofa or in bed all day. If you want to BF, try different positions (rugby ball is the only one that worked for me with newborns).

I mean, if you analysed their stools then you would find a difference between a FF and BF child.

I get your point and I broadly agree, although I don't think it's true that 99% of people find BF hard. I've had two DC, first one it was a nightmare establishing BF and second one came out, latched on and I barely had to think about it.

Part of the issue is a lack of inbuilt community support - if you've grown up seeing women breastfeed you'll understand more about it and have people to ask for solutions if you struggle, you'll know about a cousin using hot and cold compresses for blocked ducts or a neighbour using cabbage leaves or seeing different feeding holds or whatever.

As it is, for many women if they struggle they're just told to switch to formula because it was good enough for their mum, or pay £££ for a consultant.

That's very interesting and informative @AuntieJune, thanks.

I breastfed both my babies for three years. My youngest was diagnosed with Crohn's Disease at 10yo and of course two of the questions I was asked by the IBD consultant were whether I had a normal delivery and whether he was breastfed. I have wondered from time to time if what I was eating while breastfeeding had an impact on his bowel which only manifested itself last year when his symptoms began. And of course I have also wondered whether his frustratingly fussy attitude to food contributed in some way too. An attitude which I stopped fighting against for an easy life. I was losing the battle anyway. In the end, as mums, we always seem to end up feeling as if it's something we have done 'wrong'.

If she's been formula fed from day 1, then she's never been EBF (exclusively breastfed). A healthy 1 day old does not need top-up formula, so if that was medical advice, I'd be questioning that.
If you're looking for permission to drop the breastmilk, you don't need it. If you want to breastfeed, get some proper support and give it a real, good, sustained try. Take baby to bed and just feed feed feed.
She's 10 days old. She will seem ravenous. The urge to cluster feed will persist to some extent, whether formula or breastfed. It doesn't mean your breastmilk is insufficient.
If you don't want to breastfeed, don't. You don't need an excuse or a reason.

I'm sorry you had a tough start @Tiredstressedmum

I would say, please don't worry about your daughter having/not having breastmilk. Any benefits really are minimal.

FWIW my son was born after a difficult delivery and while he was totally fine and a healthy 9lb 6oz, I was badly anaemic due to blood loss in theatre when I had an emergency c-section, exhausted and a bit of a car crash.

I didn't even attempt breastfeeding- I wasn't well enough. Didn't express either, he was formula fed from day 1.

He's 9 now - extremely healthy, tall and slim. Eats anything, never ill and loads of energy. So not having breast milk hasn't made a jot of difference.

Please do whatever works for you 🌺

Please please please ignore the breastfeeding mafia! Do what is right for you and your beautiful bubba! I breast fed one of mine and not the other due to hospitalisation! They are both strong, healthy, happy children.
Congratulations xx

'There just isn't enough information about combi feeding.'

@Creepyrosemary

That's exactly it, and part of the reason I chose not to. I was abit lost, didn't understand how to do it so that baby took both without issues of preference. I also waw unsure how many feed or each/when and how to mix it! MWs & HVs didn't give any information on this, it was very much a either/or.

@Tessisme I'm sorry about your youngest, Crohn's Disease is horrible. I hope you've been able to bring it under control.

I suppose you could say that if tomorrow, the entire population decided to only have c-section births and formula feed, in coming years you would expect to see increased rates of various diseases including inflammatory disease like Crohn's - if all other factors like diet, exercise, pollutants etc stayed constant. (This would be impossible to measure or achieve but theoretically).

It wouldn't mean all children would get ill. But statistically, more would overall.

I wouldn't blame yourself at all, whether you breastfed or formula fed or however he was born. The main factor is nature sometimes being a massive and arbitrary bitch, to be honest.

was /s

In your specific case I'd do the fllowing:

1. take the pressure to breastfeed off yourself. You were obviously very ambiguous about it in the first place or you wouldn't have gone out looking for evidence to undermine it. Formula is a perfectly adequate replacement to breastmilk, will do your baby no harm, and is working for you both. So just stop worrying first of all. Feed her formula on the schedule that keeps her full and happy.

2. if you still want her to have breastmilk, then pack up the pumping (except to maintain supply) and try to get her on the breast. That way whatever she has will be 'extra' nutritionally to her formula feeds, she won't get hungry, but she might get used to it and come to like it - either simply as a comfort, bonding ritual and a nutritional/immunological supplement, or perhaps she might as she gets bigger be able to more easily extract enough milk at the breast to satiate her.

3. to encourage easy feeding at the breast, I would recommend lying in bed with your baby when she's sleeping after a formula feed, getting skin to skin (if she likes that - contrary to received wisdom, not all babies do!), and when she stirs and is still half asleep offer her the breast (you can get videos that show you how to do side-lying feeding). She's young enough that her suckling instinct should take over, and if she's not hungry it won't matter if she's getting milk at all really - the comfort and enjoyment will still be there for her, so she won't get frustrated at the breast. She may not even wake up at all.

Hopefully this sort of low pressure comfort feeding may grow into something more long-term and sustaining. If nothing else it will be some pleasant, relaxed time bonding with your baby, and you can know you have offered her breastmilk while still ensuring with formula that she's well fed and contented.

To be honest I think you sabotaged yourself a bit with your prenatal attempts to convince yourself breastfeeding was not important - if you've already psyched yourself out like that then the difficult bit at the beginning (and it is usually difficult at the beginning, it's a skill to be learned like everything else!) will seem like more trouble than it's worth. In a sense the 'is breast better than formula' question is a bit of a red herring. As I said, formula is a perfectly adequate way to feed a baby if done safely. The important question is always 'do you want to breastfeed?'. Because what you want is important. It sounds like you do want to, when it comes down to it. So give yourself a chance!

My baby had a tongue tie and I tried so hard to breastfeed (because of social pressures including my own mother) to the point where my nipples were bleeding! I stayed up all hours of the night trying to pump but my supply was quickly dwindling, I'm talking about 5ml an hour! It did so much damage to my mental health and was seriously sleep deprived. We moved on to formula very quickly with the courage of my husband who could see the affect it was having on me.

Don't listen to what people say and trust your gut. Although I still feel guilt about not doing more, he's a perfectly happy clever child who's about to turn 2.

I’m not sure how people can question whether breast milk, which is designed for human infants, is more beneficial than cows milk, which is designed for calves.

Feed your child however you like, but let’s not pretend that breast feeding doesn’t have a range of health benefits for both mum and baby, to make yourself feel better.

I'd add to that making clear to her husband that he is not to interfere, criticise or negatively comment in any way - he is, in my opinion, deciding how she feeds her baby because he has decided it doesn't make a difference because the emotional and physical aspects of breastfeeding aren't quantifiable. For some mothers, those aspects can be less important, for some, they can be more so - in both cases, whether in favour of or against a choice to BF.

His role should be of support, of providing her with food, drinks, affection, comfort - not sweeping in with a 'I knew this wouldn't work, we've already decided it isn't important, give her to me, I know what I'm doing, you just get on with your hormonal crying whilst I do the parenting' type of attitude.

Sorry poor wording. I meant if I were EBF I would just pop her on. I know she’s not been BF let alone EBF . Thank you for a very supportive reply though

Thanks pumpkin. Our starts sound similar. We never got skin to skin and I barely remembered I had a baby on the first night! I was too exhausted and weak and sore to properly try in the first few days and now I’m better I feel so upset and stressed by the whole thing I can’t bring myself to try..

I have to say I'm not getting where you're getting all this about the husband - all I've read is that he researched with the OP antenatally and that he takes the baby from her when baby and mum are getting distressed, which does sound quite helpful. I'm going to reread the OP's posts but I don't know where you're getting this authoritarian bullying from.

Fundamentally I think feeding the baby largely falls to the mum whichever way you do it (which is no bad thing as long as she's adequately supported, because the baby instinctively wants to attach to a main caregiver, usually mum) so it's up to mum how she wants to do it. So in that sense I agree he should take a supporting role; but I haven't read anything here which says he hasn't.

This is one of the most offensive posts I have seen on here. The implication that breastfed babies don't necessarily go on to earn lots of money so therefore breastfeeding isn't better is like some sick joke. The countries you mention have been ravaged by colonialism - there is no comparison.

You can pretend breastfeeding isn't better that formula if it makes you feel better but it isn't true (I say that as someone who has breastfed and had to bottle feed). Breastmilk has incredible benefits for babies. It doesn't mean we should breastfeed at the expense of our own health but it is the truth.

As a society, we've become incredibly baby-centric. You do whatever feels right for you, OP. BF has some marginal benefits, like you found in your research, but nothing that should trump your own well-being. Baby won't suffer if he or she isn't BF!