To wonder if giving any breast milk is that important?

[Tiredstressedmum]

Posting on AIBU for traffic.

I’m a FTM to a gorgeous ten day old.

Prior to delivery, DH and I did a lot of research into feeding. We both read a lot of studies and reached the conclusion that any potential benefits of BFing are likely to be marginal; we couldn’t find any conclusive swings in outcomes for BFing and found a lot of the outcomes were confounded out by factors such as socioeconomic status and parental behaviours. I reached the conclusion that I would try BFing but be quick to switch to formula if it wasn’t working for us, although secretly was confident it would work and I’d have one of those snuggly milky newborns all mumsnetters seem to have .

As it turned out, the birth did not go to plan and BFing was really hard; I don’t think LO ever had a feed (lots of latch issues) and was on top up formula from day 1. Feeding was becoming distressing for both of us and I could feel myself becoming very anxious, low and obsessive about it despite a lot of midwife support. On day four, DH bought formula and we had several days of bliss.

However, despite our previous research I felt (and still feel) wracked with guilt about being selfish and depriving LO of a good start. I decided to try pumping with good effect and have started replacing one or two bottles a day with breast milk. This sounds good in theory but LO is very unsettled after these feeds and ends up constantly crying (screaming) / taking top up breast milk until the next formula feed ‘resets’ her. I’m worried my attempts to assuage my own guilt are actually leaving her hungry and possibly causing digestive issues and discomfort.

I can’t find any information on how much breast milk is beneficial (have seen as low as 50 mL quoted a lot but no idea where this comes from) and whether my feeding regime is actually helping her in any way at all. AIBU to wonder whether giving her these bottles of breast milk is really helpful to her or whether I’m just complicating her feeding to make myself feel better?! It’s so psychologically difficult to be producing good milk for her and not giving it to her. Selfishly, I also fear judgement from other parents and professionals - I wish I could be wonderfully logical and rational like DH, who thinks formula is the best thing ever, but I’m just full of emotions and guilt and it’s stopping me enjoying my darling. Every time she cries (which is a fair bit because she’s a baby!) I end up crying too because I’m worried she’s hungry and I’ve deprived her, and DH ends up taking over.

I also think we need to stop telling mums that they absolutely have to give their baby Xoz of breastmilk and reach XYZ centile. I remember freaking out because my baby was breastfed and was always on the lower centile a which to the MW was A Bad Thing. It’s wasn’t until my GP pointed out the DD was probably a short arse because her parents are that I relaxed. She’s 10 now and still a short arse bless her 🤣 but HV/MW tick boxing can be very toxic!

OP with my first baby she would not suckle she just fell asleep. So we formula fed. I too felt quite guilty but as she had been losing weight before I made the switch it was the right thing to do. You absolutely cannot tell which kids were breastfed and which were formula fed.

My second baby has taken to breastfeeding so take heart that next time it may work if you plan to have more children. Nutritionally formula has all the right nutrients and breastfed babies are meant to be topped up with vitamin drops. Breastfeeding is very clever but only if it actually works for you, and if it doesn't then the best thing is to make sure baby is fed which is exactly what you are doing. I tried to pump too and quickly gave up as for me finding yime to pump on top of feeding was too much stress.

Your baby will be fine don't worry, you are doing a brilliant job making sure your baby is fed and happy xx

Listen to @AuntieJune. I’m also a scientist (but not a specialist in this area like a pp but I’m an academic in my science subject) and tried to do similar research to you before my DD1 was born. I came to similar conclusion that @AuntieJune posted above - breastmilk DOES matter, but so do lots of other things, and BF vs FF is very unlikely to be the most important parenting decision you make. You have managed to give baby some early breastmilk and that will have had some benefits. At this point, after reading your updates, I think you need to try to switch to exclusively BF or exclusively FF. Some people love combi feeding but in my experience when that is a combination of expressing and formula feeding then you get all the hassle of both and none of the benefits as you are still tied to the pumping, having to sterilise even more stuff every day, etc. If you could manage to switch to directly breastfeeding perhaps overnight (definite benefits - no getting up to make bottles!) and FF during the day then that might work for you. But you do need to be in a position to work on your baby’s latch and know that it will take time for them to adjust - it’s common for bottle fed babies to latch onto the boob and then quickly come off screaming because they’re furious that the milk isn’t immediately available like it is in a bottle. It can be stressful so if you want to try it then do be prepared for that and have a read about what things might help eg expressing to get your let down going beforehand. But if that sounds like it would be too stressful then just formula feed. It’s fine!

I tell you what though I bet Nestle are pissing than elves with joy thinking “Wow people are SO bought into our products that they think formula is responsible for technological advances in the West rather than the whole colonisation thing” 😂😂 brilliant! Funnily enough one of the world leaders in healthcare and AI - Israel - has very high breastfeeding rates.

Honestly OP, I would 100 per cent formula feed in your position (and I'm someone who was fortunate to be able to breastfeed both my kids without too much trauma.) Like another poster said, how you feed is not all that important. What is important is that your baby has a happy and relaxed mum. Also, for you - these early days are precious. I spent the first few weeks with my new daughter very stressed and fixated about a different but similar issue, and I just wish I had stopped overthinking it, done what suited us best and got on with enjoying my new baby. There is absolutely nothing wrong with formula milk, and it obviously works for your baby, which is all that matters! (Side issue - you say she hates the taste of your expressed milk - I just wondered if you were freezing then defrosting it? I know everyone says it's fine to do this but my DD wouldn't touch it once it had been frozen and defrosted and when I tasted it myself I could see why!) Either way expressing is a massive faff and I gave up on all that a about three weeks in when I threw my breast pump across the room and just did a mix of boob and formula from that point on, gradually moving to full formula. Good luck!

I think you are overthinking this. Also, it seems like some strange confirmation bias post - you seem to be making a case not only for BF to not be as beneficial as people say but actually inferior to FF. I expect this is to relieve your guilt, but (1) I think you are reading things into your baby's experience of BF to make yourself feel better (which is fine of course and (2) it's unnecessary to poo poo BF just because it doesn't work for you.

Feed your baby the way that makes you and your baby happy. 5 years down the line you won't even give this a second thought.

Clarification for all the breastfeeding advocates who are highly intolerant and give new mums so much grief and guilt to drive them to PND. Let mothers choose what works for them. Please start a new thread to moan about things like colonisation. I gave her an example that FF isn't going to ruin your child's future. It doesn't matters. Stop derailing OP's post and behaving like a tyrant.

But honestly OP and anyone saying the word ‘guilt’. I implore you to just stop! The world will try and make you feel guilty for the most piddly of parenting decisions for literally the rest of your life. How you choose to feed an infant makes up such a tiny teeny part of your overall parenting self - there will be a LOT more significant moments in their life and even a few where you go “Right so this next decision will be the difference between putting them on the right path or fucking then up completely”. How you feed an infant is NOT one of those decisions. There is nothing to feel guilty about - I mean I bet it, it’s shit when things don’t go as you plan and being a new mum is hard. But then they get to 10 and you wonder if moving cross-country will forever destroy them or be the best thing you ever did and you will long for the day you just simply had to choose one type of sustenance over the other 😂

Your husband seems to be contributing to your distress - you wanted to breastfeed, but he's done nothing except press for formula from the outset. And then you describe him literally as taking over.

How about what you want to do? Not him, he doesn't have the equipment to qualify as having a say in the matter - he's supposed to be there to support you, not tell you you're doing it all wrong and he's the intelligent and rational one, whereas you are just the hormonal, emotional mother.

If you choose to BF, that's your choice. If you choose to FF, that's your choice. Not his. Not anybody else's. Your choice.

If I could go back I would have mixed fed dc1 at the very least and then migrated over to formula after a couple of months or so. Exclusively breastfeeding after a traumatic start in the world drove me crazy. I was useless as expressing, as it took 3 hours to get a bottle which meant I had baby with me all of the time until 6 month old when I stopped. Even then I felt guilty!! Where does it end?! I think being miserable, and stressed over feeding is so much more detrimental to baby, than a happy Mum and a bit of formula! Hindsight is a great thing, I wish somebody has stepped in and told me this before I made myself ill.

Good, informative, post.

I really struggled to breastfeed for the first month or so. I did eventually get it established and fed until LO was 13 months old, but looking back those initial struggles definitely contributed to a downward spiral in my mental health which has had long term impacts on my bond with that baby. Once established it was a really handy way to feed a baby and I was really glad I didn't have to fuss with bottles when I was out and about. However, my advice now would be fed is best and prioritise your own mental health and wellbeing because failure to do so can have negative impacts that could outweigh the benefits of breastfeeding.

If you do want to try getting her to latch directly buy some nipple shields, they will make it easier for her and be more similar to the bottle she is used to

I breastfed both of mine, it was hard and I really wanted to swap to formula at about 8 weeks but my babies were very against having any kind of bottle in their mouths. Obviously it got easier but my point is babies can get fussy when something isn't what they are used to. Plenty of babies combination feed and switch between the two but maybe your baby just prefers the formula, which always appears a bit thicker than breast milk. I think we are conditioned to feel so much guilt as mothers. Guilt over not having a natural birth, guilt over pain relief, guilt over cosleeping or not etc etc. In reality however your baby is fed and cared for in a safe loving home they will thrive. Try to stop feeling guilt and just do what works for you. You will never get a conclusive answer on exactly how beneficial breastmilk, but it has benefits. Apparently avocado is a great food to eat in term of beneficial fats and nutrients but they give me horrific heartburn so I don't eat them, I'm not spending anytime worrying about the health impact of lack of avocados in my diet.

One of my observations is that most of the technological advancements comes from the countries with the lowest breastfeeding rates like UK, USA and Sweden etc, while you hear none of the breakthrough from the countries with highest breastfeeding rates like Burundi, Rwanda, Sri Lanka etc.

Wow this is truly nuts. So people in developing countries experience poverty because they breastfeed more? I thought I'd heard it all on here but this...

Birth didn't go to plan? This directly effects breastfeeding. Mum's feelings on their baby's birth effects the part of the brain that produces milk.
Your little one is not the problem. You are not the problem.
The way that the birth unfolded is the problem and greatly increases the need for mums to rely upon alternatives to breastmilk.
Breastmilk is optimal but not every child will receive this. There are long term issues with formula and one thing you never get with breastmilk is "we are going to have to recall this breastmilk" which happens a lot with formula because they find metals, plastic and other substances in it.

Whichever way you feed is totally fine and will make bugger all difference in the scheme of her whole life.

The simplest answer is probably that breastmilk is digested very fast so her stomach will feel empty sooner than with formula. Formula packs a lot more calories, etc per ml and is slower to digest. So if you compare milk volumes she will need less formula to satisfied compared with bottles of pumped milk.

Unless you are exclusively pumping and feeding bottles, most women have no idea how much their baby drinks (in ml or oz) per breastfeed as there’s no way to measure it when it’s going directly boob to baby.

I tried BF with first and hated it, had cracked nipples etc. Tried for a few weeks then went to FF. Same with DC2. Both were pretty healthy children, did well at school and went to uni. It’s really hard to separate out factors such as parental education, income etc. when comparing outcomes. As long as baby is fed and thriving and mum is okay, ignore the BF zealots.

I haven't RTFT, but I would just like to tell @TappingTed that formula is not a fucking Chinese takeaway. For fuck's SAKE.

OP, if you don't want to pump then stop. It's ok. It will probably make you hormonal and a bit crazy for a few days (with engorged boobs which are not fun), but it passes. I tried pumping but never got much and hated it, it made me incredibly depressed for some reason.

I couldn't breastfeed, either I didn't produce enough milk or my child didn't latch properly, no-one could work it out, but he lost so much weight by day 10 he had to be tube fed for 48 hours because he was so sleepy and they just needed to get food into him. I didn't do formula top ups because I'd read on here that you shouldn't if you want to establish breastfeeding. Like you, I assumed it would just work. I carried on doing morning and sometimes evening breastfeeds until he was about three months just to assuage my guilt, but I've no idea if he got much or it made any difference - he had a full bottle afterwards either way, it was just a nice way to settle him. He did have reflux - if that is an issue a dummy is your friend.

Obviously breastmilk is wonderful. But formula is wonderful too. To be blunt, a lot of babies would die without it (including mine). You are not harming your baby by giving formula.

@Xlap 's post makes no sense. It's adding 2 and 2 together and geetting 583.

Also Sweden has really good breastfeeding rates.

I didn’t even try to BF. I didn’t want to. And DS turned out just fine. Rarely poorly, tallest in his class now. I‘m a firm believer in do whatever suits you as mother and baby best.

Honey, you have a 10 day old, calm down. Your hormones are all over the place, and your body is still very much in active recovery mode - and even more so if the birth was difficult.

As long as your baby is fed and contented, that's all you need. Get off Google, rest, and concentrate on mending yourself and bonding with your baby.

If it's important to you then there is plenty you can do to get over this difficult bit and potentially go to on to breastfeed for a long time. If it's not important to you then that's fine, formula exists. We know it's not as good as breast milk, but then we make similar decisions for our children all the time (and some decisions are taken away from us entirely).

I had a non-latcher with my first so pumped for 8 weeks and then one day she latched and I fed her until after she turned 1. But it was very important to me so I persevered in a way that I wouldn't have if it wasn't important.

I agree with a lactation consultant. Mine was amazing, even just for the reassurance that DD1 would get there one day and I wasn't doing anything wrong. And she was right.

Breastfeeding can be hard work, and it's an individual choice how much work we want to put into it (and sometimes it doesn't work out regardless of the work, but I do believe that with the vast majority of babies they can and will breastfeed, it's just the amount of work to get them there that varies)

@Xlap did you know Rwanda was actually the first country to launch a drone delivery system? Or did you just assume it was a country full of black babies with round tummies?

Well that’s it isn’t it….that’s where so iI-economic factors come in.
Because for the first child it was easier in that there was no other children to look after but it was still hard. Who ran around looking after stuff? Hubby on paternity leave. My visitors were lovely and helped out. My parents.
Second it was easier to establish but still work. Hubby again. (Now he works for a company that gives 3 months paternity leave on full pay). Family helped out.

Whatever it doesn’t change that breastmilk is better than formula for all the reasons already mentioned. It just means formula more likely to be used because lack of care and support in society.