Page 8 | AIBU to be pissed off at sick colleague

RoseElla · 2023-08-10T11:31:20+00:00

This might sound bitchy, have name changed and will change some details so it’s not too outing to the person, as I’m just looking to vent and see if it’s reasonable as my other colleague is so OTT sympathetic to the point it winds me up. colleague has been working at company about 18 months. Has had around 10 episodes of sickness with the last one being a week long. The company don’t seem to be following regular sickness rules (we go by scoring) and she is so far over the threshold it’s unbelievable. She has said it’s all for the same stomach issue and it’s under investigation and our manager has basically told HR they don’t ever need to flag it. im just shocked tbh never have I had an employer be so unbothered. In my last jobs they would be trying to get her out and I get that sounds harsh but it affects every one, especially me. We are in an office role so we are sitting down all day I’m sure there could be some adjustments made just so the workload is taken off me a bit, even doing some from home but it’s just nothing. AIBU to think 10+ episodes is silly in 18 months? Or at least silly for a company to still entertain it?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/08/2023 18:50

LlynTegid · 10/08/2023 16:53

I'd be annoyed as it seems from the information you have they may be taking more time off than others would for the same condition. Seems that there is nothing you can do about their absence especially as you note, the condition was declared before employment. Given the NHS waiting list is now almost 1 in 10 of the population, if there is medical treatment that needs surgery I can see why it might not have happened for say 18 months.

Workload being too high whatever the cause is something to raise with your manager.

You do realise that people are individuals, @LlynTegid - different people can and do react very differently to the same condition. And the condition can vary from mild to very severe, and all points in between. So it would be very ignorant to expect everyone to react the same way to any condition.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 18:53

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/08/2023 18:47

I had 2 disabilities when l was working. I want off much but one of them was always the reason.

I had no allowances made. It’s not enshrined in law.

Yes, it is enshrined in law. I’ve posted the legal definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010. For reasonable adjustments (allowances to mitigate the effect of the disability) the condition has to meet the legal definition, and if it does, the employer has a legal obligation to follow the terms of the Act. If they don’t it’s discrimination on grounds of disability and they can be sued.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/08/2023 18:56

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 18:53

Yes, it is enshrined in law. I’ve posted the legal definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010. For reasonable adjustments (allowances to mitigate the effect of the disability) the condition has to meet the legal definition, and if it does, the employer has a legal obligation to follow the terms of the Act. If they don’t it’s discrimination on grounds of disability and they can be sued.

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I was a teacher and had the NEU rep in every return to work interview.

They don’t have to adjust for disability related absence. It’s recommended but not law. It’s a mistake often made.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 18:57

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/08/2023 18:50

You do realise that people are individuals, @LlynTegid - different people can and do react very differently to the same condition. And the condition can vary from mild to very severe, and all points in between. So it would be very ignorant to expect everyone to react the same way to any condition.

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Yep. And this is the basis on which entitlement to disability benefits works. It’s not that you have a particular condition, it’s how that condition affects you as an individual because no two people will be affected in exactly the same way. And, as you say, the condition may be progressive or fluctuating.

PeggyPoggle · 10/08/2023 18:58

I think you're being very insensitive. Imagine if she read this post?

You're quite right to feel frustrated, but not with her. Be frustrated with your company for not helping with your workload when she's not there.

Ejismyf · 10/08/2023 19:04

Wind your neck in, mind your business and do your work.

CruCru · 10/08/2023 19:04

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 14:19

With all due respect, your managers’ inability to deal with it properly is hardly the fault of the colleague who is ill.

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Oh yes, I was definitely annoyed with my manager.

The problem is that people get promoted to management because they are clever and / or are particularly good at a fairly technical job. Neither of which makes them good managers.

Handling staff absences is a really hard part of being a manager … it doesn’t sound as though the OP’s manager has done a good job of it.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 10/08/2023 19:05

OP, I sympathize. Yes, people have the right to reasonable adjustments. Yes, we want anyone willing to work to have the opportunity to do so. But it is exhausting and demoralizing to be constantly asked to pick up work from people who are off regularly. There is someone like that where I work, they pretty much never finish a project because they are off so frequently. I dont know the reason for it, its not my business to know, but it is annoying to be constantly asked to pick up their (pretty poor) work. And I am entitled to be annoyed.

Spirallingdownwards · 10/08/2023 19:06

RoseElla · 10/08/2023 12:42

I mean she is quite open about it and has said they aren’t sure what the issue is and are still investigating so I really don’t think it’s an actual disability or something more than I’m not aware of. I’m definitely not trying to be ableist it’s just quite frustrating. She started with the episodes only a few months into employment and I asked her then how management have been and she was very much “well I disclosed the ongoing investigations on my pre employment forms for occupational health so not much they can do I suppose” I think she doesn’t seem worried about the inconvenience at all. I’m not trying to be horrible I’m just stressed and on my lunch break of yet another busy day

Maybe she has had a diagnosis but simply does not want you to know HER business!!

Seriously MYOB.

BCBird · 10/08/2023 19:06

Hi OP. I was at my place of work for about 15 years and never had a dsy off. I used to get annoyed at those people who were always off. Hit 40 and I had an unexplained illness the rendered me I'll for 2 and a h months.was off. Have never really got to.my old self. Whst I.am.trying to say is that you don't whst yiur colleague is experiencing and also one day,hopefully not, your health might fail. As for workload,fo what you can. You cannot be expected to.do simeine else's workload- not acceptable or sustainable. Crack on, but don't complain. If u doing the same as others then there is no need for complaint

Spirallingdownwards · 10/08/2023 19:08

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 18:53

Yes, it is enshrined in law. I’ve posted the legal definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010. For reasonable adjustments (allowances to mitigate the effect of the disability) the condition has to meet the legal definition, and if it does, the employer has a legal obligation to follow the terms of the Act. If they don’t it’s discrimination on grounds of disability and they can be sued.

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"reasonable" adjustments. Not all adjustments are reasonable and if they are not they do not need to be made.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 10/08/2023 19:30

Not all adjustments are reasonable and if they are not they do not need to be made.

Exactly, you still have to be able to do the actual job!

HauntedPencil · 10/08/2023 19:33

You have no idea what information the management have that you don't, honestly I'd be grateful to work somewhere that treats people so well

HauntedPencil · 10/08/2023 19:34

Maybe your energy would be best on being annoyed they aren't covering the colleague adequately if you are overloaded and concentrate on that/m

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 19:35

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/08/2023 18:56

I was a teacher and had the NEU rep in every return to work interview.

They don’t have to adjust for disability related absence. It’s recommended but not law. It’s a mistake often made.

Show quote history

An employer doesn’t have to make any adjustments if they're not reasonable or are too costly. But it’s subjective and in deciding what’s reasonable, they must make sure they're not treating the person badly or putting them at a disadvantage because of their disability. This applies just as much to disability related absence - for example disciplinary action if the employee exceeds any limits on sick leave, when their absence has been mainly due to the effects of disability. Or when deciding on candidates for redundancy includes consideration of sick leave taken. Whether best practice or not, an employee can still bring a claim for indirect discrimination, so there is some legal recourse. It’s been my experience that decent employers will offer it when the pitfalls of not doing so are pointed out.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 19:46

Spirallingdownwards · 10/08/2023 19:08

"reasonable" adjustments. Not all adjustments are reasonable and if they are not they do not need to be made.

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See my recent post upthread. ‘Reasonable’ is subjective and employers have obligations when deciding what is reasonable and what isn’t. If a refusal to make an adjustment has a detrimental effect on a disabled employee and puts them at a disadvantage because of their disability, that is unlawful and they can be sued. For example, if an employer refuses to adjust for disability related absence when it is reasonable to do so, any subsequent redundancy selection policy which considers sick leave could leave the employer open to a case of indirect discrimination if that employee is selected.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 19:52

Atethehalloweenchocs · 10/08/2023 19:30

Not all adjustments are reasonable and if they are not they do not need to be made.

Exactly, you still have to be able to do the actual job!

The point of reasonable adjustments is to level the playing field for the disabled employee as much as possible, so that they are not at a disadvantage compared to able bodied colleagues. The consideration is whether they would be capable of doing the job if reasonable adjustment were made.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 19:55

Atethehalloweenchocs · 10/08/2023 19:05

OP, I sympathize. Yes, people have the right to reasonable adjustments. Yes, we want anyone willing to work to have the opportunity to do so. But it is exhausting and demoralizing to be constantly asked to pick up work from people who are off regularly. There is someone like that where I work, they pretty much never finish a project because they are off so frequently. I dont know the reason for it, its not my business to know, but it is annoying to be constantly asked to pick up their (pretty poor) work. And I am entitled to be annoyed.

But you’re not entitled to be annoyed at the person who is sick. Be annoyed that the management are not managing the absences effectively.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/08/2023 19:57

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 19:35

An employer doesn’t have to make any adjustments if they're not reasonable or are too costly. But it’s subjective and in deciding what’s reasonable, they must make sure they're not treating the person badly or putting them at a disadvantage because of their disability. This applies just as much to disability related absence - for example disciplinary action if the employee exceeds any limits on sick leave, when their absence has been mainly due to the effects of disability. Or when deciding on candidates for redundancy includes consideration of sick leave taken. Whether best practice or not, an employee can still bring a claim for indirect discrimination, so there is some legal recourse. It’s been my experience that decent employers will offer it when the pitfalls of not doing so are pointed out.

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From the Disability Law Service.

Its not enshrined in law. It’s good policy and can leave employers open to claims, but it’s not law.

MRex · 10/08/2023 20:01

RoseElla · 10/08/2023 12:55

Manager told me I was just fortunate the work load hasn’t been up to the amount it can be for one person and so yes they accept I’m taking on the amount she would be doing; it’s still perfectly reasonable for one person but then everyone else gets to do less as they have 2 people working on it

The thing you need to do is your own job. Stop thinking and getting irritated by a colleague, she has nothing at all to do with you. If you don't have time to pick up her work then simply don't do it and let the manager know you ran out of time. Even better take a proactive approach in the morning when she's off, saying there will not be time to cover X, so if they want it done they need to remove some other tasks or share out the tasks across more people. Please stop being angry with your colleague for being unwell though, I'm quite sure she'd rather not have pain too.

Rosscameasdoody · 10/08/2023 20:02

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/08/2023 19:57

From the Disability Law Service.

Its not enshrined in law. It’s good policy and can leave employers open to claims, but it’s not law.

Show quote history

Yes, we’ve covered that. Adjustment for disability related absence is best practice, but in practice employers can still be sued if not offering it puts the employee at a disadvantage. It can be a contributing factor in indirect discrimination.

TheShellBeach · 10/08/2023 20:05

I love the way the OP
says that her sick colleague "doesn't seem to see the inconvenience of it"
How about the "inconvenience" of her illness to the sick colleague?
I bet she isn't enjoying being ill.

EldenRing3 · 10/08/2023 20:14

MillWood85 · 10/08/2023 13:16

You won't get a supportive answer on here, OP. MN users are 100% on the side of the sick employee, and never the poor sods left dealing with their workload.

I'm a small business owner and am always so saddened by these answers because the impact of someone being off is huge - no matter what the reason behind it. Someone with repeated ongoing absences is a nightmare to manage, and you do need to be seen to be "dealing" with the issue to the rest of the staff.

It's the managers job to manage though. They're not dealing with that. That's on them and not the sick colleague.
IF OP had posted 'Colleague is off, manager hasn't reduced workloads AIBU to be pissed' off the responses would have been the complete opposite.

Having said that... you CAN get rid of someone for repeated absences. However, you need to do so correctly, following proper procedure, so that you don't leave yourself open to a disability discrimination claim. I'm not saying that a company 'should', just that they 'can'.

The majority of HR and managers are too lazy to work this out however. Or to arrange proper cover/manage workload. So they just let the employee off and shove their work onto the rest of the team.

Octosaurus · 10/08/2023 20:18

YABU and judgmental you have no idea how hard it is and how long it takes to get diagnosed for serious illnesses.

RollaCola84 · 10/08/2023 20:27

I've been the manager in this kind of situation. Member of staff A having time off as they wrestle with assorted symptoms, tests to try and establish a cause, and trialing medication options. Member of staff B knowing less than half the story - rightly - and being both nosy and a whinge about it.

I know which one I'd have got rid of it was up to me.