To feel that parents with older children shouldn't be using parent and child car parks?

[mickitee]

Several times since having my baby, I've been to car parks where all the parent and child spaces were full, and then struggled with her pushchair in a regular car space only to look over and see a family with older children (8+) getting into a car in one of the parenting child spaces.

Am I wrong to feel that these parks are designed for families with babies and younger children using pushchairs, or who actually need what's the extra space to be able to get their child in and out safely without risking damage to cars around them. If your child is at an age and ability level where they are capable of getting in and out of the car safely by themselves, you don't need the space and are just making life more difficult for other parents.

So, AIBU to feel annoyed about this?

God forbid that disabled people inconvenience anyone else.

The post has nothing to do with disabilities? The OP hasn't mentioned disabled people in her OP so all this is irrelevant 🤷‍♀️ in answer to her OP YANBU. If the children are disabled that's different though isn't it and irrelevant to her original post.

One day these people will learn. It will probably be when they take their now elderly parents out who don’t have a BB, but mum or dad will be having a bad day physically and they will say ‘f it, for my beloved parents sake I won’t make them walk half way across a busy car park, I’ll quickly park up in the p and c… I’ll only be 10 minutes…’.

They mentioned that anyone with kids over 8 shouldn’t be using them. Considering many of us have children with disabilities who are over that age but not entitled to a BB it is completely relevant to the debate as to where exactly are we allowed to park by this imagined acceptability of using P and C spaces. Following that, plenty of teens and adults also have disabilities but may not qualify for a BB (as they’re very difficult to be approved of), so as a generalisation the P and C spaces (which are not legally enforced like disabled ones) should be open to anyone who needs one, not specifically for a parent who lucky enough that their struggles won’t last a lifetime…

Ok maybe next time she should put a disclaimer about her post clearly not intending to include disabled children. That's clearly not the debate she was looking for yet somehow it always comes up on these threads which is a shame. No one would want to upset parents with disabled kids I'm sure it's really hard. But that's not what this thread is about.

How would she or you know the difference? Most people don’t know my kids are autistic/adhd just looking at them. I haven’t got around to tattooing it to their foreheads yet to avoid the endless amount of judgement when out and about…

How about people like yourself just mind your own business about something as irrelevant as an extra wide parking space? Because if this is your biggest problem getting out and about then honesty I envy you.

Well, it's about the use of parent and child spaces by those who either have older kids or don't have kids with them.

So how is not about disabled people who are using them in the situation where they can't (for whatever reason) use a disabled space?

In my experience the disabled places are usually right outside - isn’t that most of the point? The p&c tend to be further back. I would definitely complain if the disabled spaces are out the way.

@RedRosette2023 in my local supermarket, there are disabled spaces down one side, and P&C down the other, from the front of the store right the length of the car park with a walkway between them

In most places they are but not all. We have a new build Lidl/b and m close to use and the retail park they are on has the P and C spaces right next to the store and the disabled spaces across from the store. When I am with ds (13 and blue badge holder) I use P and C spaces because they are the safest for us. I have noticed a lot of blue badge holders do the same.

when it opened a lot of us complained but it fell on deaf ears

My ideal would be everyone who gets mobility element of PIP/DLA to automatically be entitled to a blue badge and at the same time massively increase the number of blue badge spaces.

i would then either make all remaining spaces slightly wider OR have some spaces near the disabled spaces and others at the very back marked as “spaces for for those who need more space” to cover anyone not covered by the blue badges

YANBU really OP, I mean I wouldn't go into the car park and fight with people over it but people who race to get as close to the front door as possible at the expense of people who need the spaces are just lazy turds in my opinion.

I do think though that P&C spaces should be changed so that they're for heavily pregnant women and mothers with babies under 1 (not fathers because what physical problems do they struggle with post birth) babies still in car seats are heavy and hard to get out. Once they're toddlers it's easier really to park at the back of the car park beside a trolley bay and wrestle them into a trolley seat. I have a 6 and 2 year old and I don't really use P&C spaces anymore, just got out of the habit.

But there are people who don't have a blue badge who need one to park close. It's not always about the extra space!

babies still in car seats are heavy and hard to get out.

My middle son wasn’t out of a pram until he was three, didn’t get DLA (no mobility side) until he was 4 and didn’t get a BB until he was 5. You’d expect parents with toddlers that still need manoeuvring to be denied extra space parking? Because you must know how much more difficult it is to get a big toddler out of a car than a newborn in a car seat…

I really don’t think having an oversized car is a disability 🙄

To clarify, as I have many times, I do believe that people and children with disabilities (whether hidden or not) should use these spaces if they need to. In fact, my post DOES actually specifiy ability, which I think is clearly implies that if your child's ASD or ADHD or anything else prevents them from safely exciting a vehicle then I'm not talking about you.

I have also never suggested that the use is externally policed, and I trust people to know if they need them. The point I am making is that people who know they do not need them for safety or space reasons still choose to use them because they want the convenience, as is clear from some of the responses here.

I'm not talking about you.

This line often comes up when someone is having a bit of a rant about something. Benefits for example, all scroungers until someone is just getting top ups on full time work, or has a disability. ‘Oh I don’t mean youuu’. But on the surface you can’t tell the difference between (in this case) a ‘typical’ 8, 9, 10 year old and one who does have additional needs. You judge everyone the same in the real world without a moment’s consideration that ‘there may be a reason for it’. You feel your own circumstances have been put out for someone else using something they are in fact perfectly allowed to use regardless.

Well, no? That's not how I feel about benefits at all. And it's also not how I feel about this issue. You're basically implying that I'm the sort of person who thinks that I'm missing out whenever other people have access to something, which is untrue. I'm all for people having access to resources they need, and I'm totally pro other people having access to those resources if it ensures that the people who actually need them get them. The problem I have, and the point of this post, is when there is a finite resource and people who don't need it use it anyway without considering that others who needed might be left without access. And almost to approve my point, there are comments in this thread saying that people park in the child spaces because it's quicker to get into the store, or because they have a big car. There are even people saying they don't care about other people, and they want to use them so they will, which would not be a problem, if there were enough spaces that the people who actually need them could also use them at the same time.

Benefits is also just not a valid comparison. It's not like there are five benefits available in one town, and someone who is a "scrounger" receives one, so someone else with a legitimate reason to use it can't get it because they didn't get there first. If benefits worked that way, I would have a problem with that.

But you don’t need a p and c space. It’s not a necessity. It wouldn’t stop you getting to the shops if you couldn’t use one, it would simply be an irritation. And I wasn’t comparing the situation to benefits, only the use of wording about not being judgmental in your own approved circumstances, however you’d not be aware of said circumstances in the moment and therefore your instinct is to think ‘I am more deserving than the person who has that space’.

My issue is op, that you talk about seeing people who have bigger kids and who you have decided don't need the space, using it.

How do you know looking at people who has hidden disabilities?

I think if you have a child that’s able to get in and out of a car without issues you should leave the spaces for people who really need them. I once had to drive out of a bay whilst partner stood with baby as not enough space to get her infant carrier in as normal parking bays too close together. Could
not have just left her infant carrier sat by itself whilst I drove car out of was by myself.

You are right, of course. I am sorry for any suggestion that I could tell if people needed the space, I didn't intend that but can see how it came across. I want to be clear that I still feel that the primary purpose of the P&C wider spaces should be getting small children, or children who need assistance at any age, in and out of a car safely and with no risk of damage to other cars. I also accept that people with disabilities may need the extra space even without children and I don't dispute that at all. But I totally acknowledge that the proximity to a store front means that for a lot of families they feel safer even if they don't need the extra space around the vehicle. In a perfect world these could be separate areas in a car park - people who need space don't always need to be close to the store front, and vica versa.

I do feel that this thread has shown that people use these spaces for a variety of understandable reasons, and that some people use these spaces just because they are available to them, without any real need for the space or proximity. I suppose if the majority of people think that is ok, then I am wrong to feel annoyed and I can accept that.

Yeah, we've had to do this multiple times. A few people in this thread have just said we should just park further away from a shop to have more space, but in some places this isn't actually an option. Where we are the car parks are often really full even at the back, so the wider P&C parks being taken often means that we have to cram into a tiny park and get our baby out of the car in a less than safe manner. Absolutely, people with older children are entitled to use them, but barring any specific need, I don't understand why you would. If my child was old enough to unbuckle herself from her seat and get out of the car herself, and we didn't need space to set up and put her into a push chair without it being in the middle of the road behind the car, we would have way more parking options!

That's a problem with the BB system, it really needs an overhaul. But no, of course I wouldn't want anyone of any age with a disability or health condition to feel they couldn't use P&C spaces if they needed to.

You've never seen my 8 year old open a car door. Cost me my no claims bonus (despite there being no visible mark/dent on the man's preposterously large car), so I'll take that extra space until 12 .
I also have a two year old so I assume it's "acceptable" if she is with me.