To feel that parents with older children shouldn't be using parent and child car parks?

[mickitee]

Several times since having my baby, I've been to car parks where all the parent and child spaces were full, and then struggled with her pushchair in a regular car space only to look over and see a family with older children (8+) getting into a car in one of the parenting child spaces.

Am I wrong to feel that these parks are designed for families with babies and younger children using pushchairs, or who actually need what's the extra space to be able to get their child in and out safely without risking damage to cars around them. If your child is at an age and ability level where they are capable of getting in and out of the car safely by themselves, you don't need the space and are just making life more difficult for other parents.

So, AIBU to feel annoyed about this?

It never occurred to me it was about prams? Surely you just park the pram behind the car, lift the baby from the seat and walk round carrying the baby, the pushchair doesn't need to be next to the car.

I do think its helpful for very little babies where you might lift the whole carseat out and onto a pram chassis as you need the door wide open to do that.

I assumed the main reason was the need for an adult to be able to get in the doorway and reach across a child to check or fasten their seatbelt. In some cars the seat belt clip is in a fiddly position and a child as old as 6 might struggle to get it in. A taller child that age can easily look 8 (my 6 yo is taller than many 8 year olds).

Someone reversed into my pram and knocked it over when my oldest DC was a baby. Thank goodness I was putting her in the car at the time, and the pram was empty, but it has always made me angry since then to see people whizzing into P&C spaces and sauntering out child free to the shops, with not a care in the world, while parents are struggling to get their baby/ toddler in and out of their seat, and pushchairs are parked behind the car because there is no space beside it. There really is no need to be so self-centred. I would never park in one of those spaces if I didn’t need it.

I use them and my kids 10&12.
Im allowed to use them so I will.

This is a great question! So if my son needs to walk into somewhere we need to be as close as possible to the entrance. So I’ll park either in a disabled spot or P&C, whichever is more available and accessible. If he isn’t going to walk meaning he’s sitting in his wagon or a shopping cart then we need a disabled bay for the wider space. It doesn’t matter if it’s a longer walk as it’s me pushing him.
Why on earth a neurotypical, healthy non disabled 12 year old would require P&C parking is beyond me.

That's not why people need them: they need extra space to get the child in and out. Normal spaces are tiny.

Well why don't they park further away where there are more spaces? Or make up a petition to get all parking spaces to be bigger?

Bigger adults need more space to get out a car than a child does and still have to always use normal spaces. Unless you're taking a car seat out but why don't you plan for that?

I had a double buggy and choose one that was a seat one in front of the other. A side by side one was easier for me to navigate but practically I didn't expect everyone else to clear the aisles for me to walk through taking up the whole space. So really if people think this is an issue, get a buggy you can take out the boot without having to remove a car seat.

So entitled people think everyone else should park elsewhere in case they happen to turn up with their baby.

I’m partially sighted so my walking isn’t the issue, the cars are

It has nothing to do with being a single parent @EarringsandLipstick , I don't recall a single time we went shopping as a family
If people with children need to use them they should
You need to calm down, you don't know their circumstances

Wardens patrol all of the shopping mall spaces by us, which are privately owned.

If anyone parks in a disabled bay, without a badge, they are ticketed.

And the fines are enforceable.

With a dc that can be in a pram it's safe enough to park further away where there are several empty spaces as they are contained for the walk. An older child who might be a flight risk probably needs the safe/close area more tbf

I didn't know this. My mum has a blue badge now but they are not easy to get and would have made our lives easier in the run up had I known this. Aren't you liable to get a difficult to remove sticker plastered on your window though? I've seen that happen before (albeit not for a while)

Im struggling to understand how you don’t qualify for a blue badge, but are entitled to park in a P&C bay by reason of reasonable adjustments for your disability.

Surely if it’s a reasonable adjustment by virtue of law you’re entitled to a badge.

If it’s not a reasonable adjustment you’re not entitled to a badge because the nature of your disability doesn’t demand larger spaces.

Please enlighten me.

Have you ever tried to apply for a blue badge when you have a child with autism who has meltdowns and us a flight risk at age 9? I have and it took 3 years. It should be automatic but it's not. Perhaps now you understand.

Because with or without a blue badge the person is still disabled and therefore entitled, by law, to reasonable adjustments.

sadly the blue badge system is broken and a lot of people fall through the net. Because they don’t have a blue badge they can’t park in those spaces but a P and C space will often be the next best thing.

@RedRosette2023 Not all disabled people qualify for a blue badge. That doesn’t mean they’re not disabled.

In the meantime you were able to use P&C spaces so I’m not sure of your point.

Of course it doesn’t. I’m not suggesting that whether or not you qualify for a BB is an indication of disability.

What I’m saying is the LA in applying their criteria for a BB will also have to factor in the “reasonable adjustments” save for examples where there’s an error in their application it should follow that if you don’t qualify for a BB you don’t need the spaces.

P&C bays are only in a few supermarkets anyway. They’re not standard.

You where struggling to realise the fact that some people carnt get a blue badge. I was pointing out one of the facts they carnt.

Yanu to feel upset about it op

I remember feeling incensed when we had 2 under 2 (and then 3 under 3, although I stopped taking them on my own then!) and seeing them being used by single, able bodied blokes.

The supermarket put them there for families with young children and that's who they should he used by. To save children having to cross the road in a busy car park and to prevent damage to neighbouring parked cars by young children opening their doors. Apparently you're entitled for thinking they should be used as the shop intended them to be though on mumsnet.

I have a different view of who the entitled ones are though...

No I’m not.

i have a child with asd and a BB although he has mobility issues, so I can’t tell you what swung it. He has a friend who has a badge because she can’t reliably walk for the 100m or whatever it is without getting distracted. I think the wait is in part to differentiate between what is child like behaviour and which is resulting from disability.

But you’ve missed my point.

My point is if this is a reasonable adjustment allowed by law by virtue of your disability then the LA are just as bound by that law in their criteria for a badge. Which begs the question is it really a reasonable adjustment or is it a sense of entitlement.

If it really is a reasonable adjustment surely the LA can be challenged on that basis.

Yeah, that's not how it works. Otherwise literally everyone with a disability would have to be awarded a BB.

The concept of 'reasonable adjustments' doesn't mean that every person with a disability is entitled to something which is designed for certain people with disabilities. I'm not entitled to disability benefits despite having a disability. I'm not asking the DWP to make a 'reasonable adjustment' and pay them to me anyway. And it doesn't mean that I don't require reasonable adjustments from my employer.

A person can be found to have no entitlement to a BB but still need a space that is wider and/or closer to the store. The store is providing a reasonable adjustment in permitting them to use a P&C space. Just as my employer provides me with reasonable adjustments to allow me to work, despite me not qualifying for disability benefits available to disabled people.

This.

I get PIP now - before I got PIP I couldn't have a BB - now I get it, it's automatically granted when I apply as I have to show my entitlement letter.

Before I got PIP. I went through the rigmarole of getting letters from my GP, physio and consultant and was turned down for a BB.

I was still entitled to a reasonable adjustment on the grounds of my disability - and that was what I used to access parent and child parking.

@fitzwilliamdarcy

A person can be found to have no entitlement to a BB but still need a space that is wider and/or closer to the store.

That’s sort of my point - if they need it, it’s an adjustment that’s reasonable and necessary.

@RedRosette2023 the right to a reasonable adjustment is on a goods and service provider in this case - the supermarket. That's under the EA 2010

That's different to the criteria used to decide on issue of a BB or PIP or other disability benefits.

But reasonable adjustment will be different for everyone.

for those who qualify for a blue badge using that (or p and c, or many other spaces) is the reasonable adjustment.

for those who don’t qualify using the P and C spaces when available would still be a reasonable adjustment.

it’s not a one size fits all thing.