To wonder about other countries approaches to raising children

[Mamabear04]

I was approached in a supermarket by an elderly woman who I think just wanted a chat because she was lonely. I was with my baby and she proceeded to tell me about her son who lives in the Netherlands and how they let their kids stay up late, unlike British parents who can't wait to get their kids to bed. It got me to wondering about how other cultures raise their kids. I do put my children to bed early at 7pm, yes because I like to have the evenings to rest but also it means they gets a solid 11-12 hours sleep and wake for the working day at 7am. A friend who lives in France said that kids are seen and not heard there and have hardly any play parks (I was a bit shocked about the play parks tbh), she also said Israeli families consider their kids the biggest blessing from God and so let their kids do anything (in a nice way not an antisemitic way. They are a multicultural family). I also have a friend who said her cousin still sleeps in the same room as her parents at 9 years old and they live in UAE. I'm just so curious about how other cultures raise their kids and also how people see British families as well. I only ever hear that British families don't eat together and don't engage with their kids. Anyone from outwith the UK want to tell about how they raise their children? Do you really think of British families like this?

I think Dutch kids go to bed even earlier than English ones! However I think they are allowed a lot more freedom in general- primary age kids cycling all over without adults like we did here in the 70s/80s

I have 2 Dutch friends and they parent pretty much the same as the Brits I know, kids in bed relatively early. I’m staying in DH’s home village in France right now and there are 2 playgrounds here, one was recently redone and is always busy. A lot more toddlers seem to wander around with dummies all the time though, maybe that’s how they keep them
quiet!

There are loads of playparks in France though. My children have played in plenty of random ones we've just happened across, some in the middle of streets in towns with cafes on either side. Usually with lots of nice trees around the edge for shade. I've heard the French school system is stricter and not particularly inclusive for children with SEND, but that might be as reliable as the playpark thing.

We eat together pretty much 3 times a day (unless the kids are out socialising or DH has to go to the office)

We are engaged parents and have strict rules about screen time (kids are 16 and 11). The kids do lots of extracurricular activites and activities with us as parents too.

The kids have always had bedtimes until recently (and the 11 year old still does).

I have seen UAE parenting in action and it is far removed from what I'd do with my kids. To my eyes, it was overly indulgent and lax.

The thing that strikes me (not originally from UK, though lived there longterm, had my son there and raised him there until he was eight) is that I’ve not encountered so much widespread anxiety about parenting in any other culture, or so much worry about education, ‘good schools’ (even though ‘academics’ are not particularly prized), or a child being summer-born being such a disaster.

Part of it seems to stem from the class system (some of the stress on private schools, extracurricular stuff, worry their children aren’t ‘doing enough’ is a fear of being left behind socially), and part from the fact that England (where I lived for over 20 years — can’t speak for other parts of the UK) is simply not a very child-friendly society, which feeds parental anxiety about their children’s behaviour in public being judged negatively.

I love in the Netherlands and don’t think they go to bed later. I do think they more freedom to go out unsupervised earlier though and the parents are maybe less health and safety cautious

I do think a lot of children in Britain go to bed very early and eat dinner really early.

Germany young kids play unsupervised outside - they can walk to school alone aged 6 or 7

They have much more colourful clothing - there is much less distinction between girls and boys clothes and the young girls clothes was much less sexualised

Eat at normal times ( for us!) and sleep at normal times

Perhaps we should be specific about times because I bet we have a huge array of "normal"

So I'd say evening meal by 6 and kids in bed so they can get up at 7 with the recommended hours sleep between 8 and 10 depending on age
I know in the south east with long commutes people eat later

Can’t say I disagree with any of this. Light bulb moment tbh thank you 😂

Co-sleeping is the norm in the Caribbean island my family are from.

We don’t have sleep routines and sleep
training and kids will generally be up later than UK kids.

We are in Germany. Compared to friends with kids of a similar age in the UK, I think we are a lot more laid back. DS can go and play by himself at a playground when we are at a restaurant. It's generally fine. He's 6 and will come and check in periodically. Most people don't mind kids wandering around, especially if you are seated outdoors.
There seems to be much less anxiety about good schools. They attend the closest primary school locally automatically (although DS is at an independent school due to my work) and walk there and back from the age of 6. Parents also seem to put a lot of emphasis on free play and on being outdoors. I know several parents who send their kids to forest kindergarten and think it's great.
Secondary level is a little more difficult but in our state, school choice is according to parental choice. I'll look into schools when he gets a little older but I'm generally not too fussed about which secondary school he'll go to. We've got several grammar schools in the area to choose from.
DS goes to bed between 8 and 10pm but he can stay up when we've got people round.

My sister is a lot more "German" with her approach to parenting, though. Her children aren't allowed sugar. They are very keen on healthy eating, exercise and staying slim. Lots of outdoor time is spent hiking. They also attend forest kindergarten and aren't allowed to watch TV.

I think some ideas depend on the individual families and not so much on the culture.

Great thread!

Rural Scandinavia: definitely a lot of freedom to play outside from quite a young age (not in playgrounds but in fields and woodlands), cycling and roaming considerable distances along quite lonely forest roads to meet friends or go swimming (this feels crazy to me now, living in Britain). Not the case in urban areas, of course.

As far as parental engagement is concerned (but concede my own experience of education, parenting and social circle may just be a small sample), I think scandi families often discuss matters of society and 'light' politics with their children; society as a whole feels more politically engaged.

The 'social contract' is drilled into kids from a young age and acting outside of its perimeters can feel unthinkable and trigger massive judgement: it is what makes many of the institutions and facilities (from communal laundry facilities to large public events) which visitors from abroad often admire, work -respecting instruction and direction, waiting your turn, doing what is expected to a good standard, keeping cool, not cutting corners or trying to gain personal advantage.

There are many synonymous for 'integrity' in my language, and most kids will have this concept modelled as a strong value from early on, by parents and educators.

I spent some years in Sweden and the school system is much freer (in terms of behaviour). Children allowed to sit on desks/ wander the corridors freely. Children as young as 3 being taken to the forest where many of them walked on ice/ scaled a big rock face. The teacher was there but not hovering anywhere near them.

I asked what would happen if one of the children fell and hurt themselves- would the parents complain? The teacher just said, "The parents understand things happen."

You can imagine the complaints teachers would get here if they tried to do something like that. I feel that we think (in theory) that children should become independent, but we don't actually give them as many opportunities to learn independence in schools. We micromanage them, but also expect them to manage their feelings and behaviour. Although several teachers in Sweden did tell me they feel the "pendulum has swung too far the other way" and they're not allowed to be negative in any way.

Also Sweden has amazing childcare for about 150 Euros a month. Lots of great provision for children with additional needs and understanding of them. The whole culture feels a lot more family friendly and set up to support families at a governmental/ societal level.

I've also heard in France, children as young as 5 go away for week-long school residential trips. But I don't know how true this is.

I also lived in Japan for many years. The focus even when raising children is a lot more on the 'group' rather than the individual. It teaches empathy and consideration for others which works well at a societal level- people are generally extremely polite, helpful and considerate. It's a far less individualistic society. However there are downsides. Those who don't fit into society's mould can feel ostracised...

Germany - children generally are trusted to get on with life things much earlier - taking yourself to school aged 6/7 is normal, as is going to the library/ shops alone at a young age. Being a latchkey child is normal. That's partially down to the fact that German schools at primary level (used to, not sure about these days) can finish as early as 12.30pm.

Children eat dinner with adults at a dinner table; I don't know any German families (though I am sure there are some) that eat in front of the TV with food on their laps.

I agree with PP about clothing. Much more child-like and not trying to dress children up as mini-adults. The lack of school uniform then allows youngsters to gradually develop their own style. Anything too out of line and you'd generally have the piss taken out of you by students and teachers alike, so barely anyone dresses in an extreme way.

Children are usually quiet on public transport - the noise over here would be frowned upon.

Adults everywhere are much more likely to tell a stranger child off if they step out of line, e.g. if they jaywalk (a big no-no), which helps keep children in line wherever they go.

Lastly, food: there is rarely such a thing as a children's menu. Children eat what adults eat, you just order a child-size portion at reduced cost, so children grow up with a generally healthier and more varied diet.

I'm British but we ate together every night at 6.30pm as soon as they could sit in a high chair, and the same food within reason. They also didn't go to bed until 8/9/10 - they slept in though, not morning people until this day (adults now). I coslept until they wished to stop (2.5 for dd1, 7 for dd2). My now dp thinks I was a proper hippy style parent, especially taking them to festivals etc, his ex was very different to me

I don't think I'm typical

synonyms, of course.

Jesus, yes, I think you're right about the school system now. Having taught in Sweden, it was refreshingly child centred but I understand from colleagues currently teaching in secondary schools in particular that there is work to be done and conversations to be had around boundaries and personal and collective responsibility, with groups of pupils advocating that any assertion of teacher authority is an infringement of personal rights / space / autonomy. But I do think we have seen the same in UK secondary schools too; talking to my DC and friends' DC, I hear lots of stories of kids (and their parents) who raise hell when mobile phones are confiscated or uniform infringements are noted (I absolutely oppose the 'corporate' vibe of school uniform in the UK, for the record, but respect the institution's prerogative to state its conditions, as a true Swede).

I find all this fascinating. I think we are way too risk averse in the UK with regards to giving children freedom to roam and do things independently, which is a massive factor in our young people's poor mental health. I'd love to have brought up DD in the Netherlands or Germany and had her cycle to school alone aged 7.

My sister had her children in France and parenting is much stricter. Parents put their babies to bed, shut the door and let them cry it out. Children are expected to sit politely through looooong meals at the table and not complain and there's a massive focus on good table manners from a very young age. Schooling is very formal from age 7 and no support to speak of for SEN.

Oh and my kids played out from around 4&6 when we moved to a safe private road cul de sac (think farm track, would wreck your car over about 5mph!) all the kids did.

I sound a very laid back parent though they are both adults now, both attended good universities etc

"Adults everywhere are much more likely to tell a stranger child off if they step out of line, e.g. if they jaywalk (a big no-no), which helps keep children in line wherever they go."
Fromer, I really miss this. It is so supportive to know that strangers have your back and are prepared to step in and proxy-parent should a child or young person behave inconsiderately, rudely or dangerously. It is such a powerful thing and I'm sure much of the bonkers antisocial behaviour perpetrated by relatively young kids I see in Britain wouldn't be happening if the norm was for adults to step up and take collective responsibility for raising young people.

I agree. As a teacher I sometimes tell other kids off before I can stop myself (much to dd's embarrassment), and they generally respond well. Children appreciate boundaries and knowing adults are paying attention.

My sister lives in Sweden and it seems structurally more child-centric but culturally less child-centric/more relaxed.

Structurally there’s play parks everywhere, subsidised nursery, better parental leave (including 6 months for dads which most dads take), an abundance of summer childcare, good leave entitlement that means people can take their whole family to the countryside for weeks, etc.

Culturally everyone returns to work after having kids, it’s normal for mums to go out and have their own lives, you don’t follow your kids like a hawk when they’re playing, they cycle places/take public transport instead of being ferried about, people aren’t as obsessed about schools and their rating, etc.

I don’t know about bedtimes because my sister still brings her children up in quite a British way but I do lean towards the more freedom & relaxed approach after spending so much time out there in the last 15 or so years. We chose our house to accommodate our kids walking to school and playing out unsupervised eventually because I want to give them more freedom than a lot of the other children we know.

Such an interesting thread, thank you to everyone who's shared their experiences. I am curious about other Anglosphere nations which we would think of as culturally quite close to ours like Ireland, Australia, the US and Canada and how different the approach is there. I also think some differences are climate led - eg staying up late makes sense in southern European or Middle Eastern countries where it's so hot during the day.

I'm currently in Turkey and the children here stay up so late, we were out at about half 11 one night and the play park was full of kids playing (because it's just too hot for the kids to play in the park during the day). I'm not sure if this is just because it's the school holiday though. I've also noticed so many children help with their parents at the markets, one restaurant we were in the owners 11 year old son was working and serving us beer. Told my "why should I have to put the dishes away" 10 year old that I'd set her to work so we could re-coop some of the holiday costs!!

They also seem to have no regard for car safety and let their kids ride on motorbikes with no helmets and hang off the back of pick up trucks on the motorway 😱