To wonder about other countries approaches to raising children

[Mamabear04]

I was approached in a supermarket by an elderly woman who I think just wanted a chat because she was lonely. I was with my baby and she proceeded to tell me about her son who lives in the Netherlands and how they let their kids stay up late, unlike British parents who can't wait to get their kids to bed. It got me to wondering about how other cultures raise their kids. I do put my children to bed early at 7pm, yes because I like to have the evenings to rest but also it means they gets a solid 11-12 hours sleep and wake for the working day at 7am. A friend who lives in France said that kids are seen and not heard there and have hardly any play parks (I was a bit shocked about the play parks tbh), she also said Israeli families consider their kids the biggest blessing from God and so let their kids do anything (in a nice way not an antisemitic way. They are a multicultural family). I also have a friend who said her cousin still sleeps in the same room as her parents at 9 years old and they live in UAE. I'm just so curious about how other cultures raise their kids and also how people see British families as well. I only ever hear that British families don't eat together and don't engage with their kids. Anyone from outwith the UK want to tell about how they raise their children? Do you really think of British families like this?

I’m British, all eat together. Kids out playing (siblings and village kids) most of the day from fairly young age, they come back periodically to check in. They have loads of freedom. I don’t think you can really say everyone from one culture parents the same, the PP who spoke about German sister who is strict and no TV etc, I definitely know people here that parent that way. Homeschooling and forest schooling and careful with food. I also have friends whose kids don’t really have a bedtime so 🤷‍♀️ We are all different.

@escapingthecity

I raised mine in the USA, it's pretty similar to the U.K. but even more paranoid! Especially about foods etc. kids seem to be medicated for everything from young too, half DD's class were in Ritalin and tge parents were proud to tell you so.

Bedtimes etc all similar to the U.K.

I don’t think it’s necessarily about being able to play out but where. I’ve seen very young kids (age 4ish) playing unsupervised in streams and children (age 8 and up) swimming or boating unsupervised in lakes/canals and this is seen as normal.

I’m not sure what you mean but on Mumsnet and beyond there seems to be a general feeling that we don’t let our kids do anything without being supervised. Lots of other cultures are much more relaxed with their kids (apparently). I think personally that there is just a mix of parenting techniques in every culture. Or you just implying British people specifically only let their kids play out alone in dangerous places unsupervised? 🤔

I was speaking to an Italian friend about the bedtimes thing, we are both shocked that on a (rare) lovely sunny day, parents still leave the park at 4 or 4.30 to get home so that the children can have tea at 5 and then in bed at 6.30. What a waste of a lovely evening?
Also the idea that kids should be put to bed early so that parents should have 'adult time' seems so sad. So the kids don't get to enjoy time with their parents after their meal. If everyone was more boundaried (not letting kids TV stay on until 9pm, reading encouraged, conversation encouraged) then I think it wouldn't feel such a chore being with your own children from 5 until 8pm.

Sorry I was referring to the Netherlands. I have seen children playing out unsupervised in places in the Netherlands which I don’t think would be considered acceptable in the uk, mainly places involving water.

I'm British but probably didn't parent in a particularly British way - co slept for ages, no early bedtimes, very relaxed about evening meal times etc. Not sure how much of this was the influence of having lived abroad for years and having a non-British DH. Tbh, my own parents didn't really parent in a "traditional" British way either, so I guess that might have made me more open to the idea of doing things differently.

Indeed. I wish I could go back in time and pinpoint the moment checking another person's child became interfering old-bat-ery instead of actually supporting another parent by taking care of their child! Everyone chants 'it takes a village' but really they want a village of people nodding sweetly and smiling as their children wreak havoc.

I've some experience of friends parenting in the states and so much of it is location driven. I've one friend whose DS is allowed to play out and walk to school but they paid millions to live in what's essentially a gated village with safe roads and great schools.

Another is in the car all the time, but that's down to where they live - all roads, no pavements, nobody walks.

Conversely an acquaintance who lives in NYC's kids have more freedom than lots of British kids because they travel into the city for school on public transport. Once that genie is out of the bottle, it's hard to come up with excuses to keep them close.

No idea about general standards but French kids who live near where my parents have a holiday home generally seem well behaved. Yes they can be naughty and rude on school trips but the children of the French people I know expect them to behave well.

Friend here who’s German (mother), she tries to limit children but is strict with her two boys. They’re still allowed to play etc though! My German cousin who’s brought up 2 DC over here in England is proud of her strict German upbringing! My DM in theory was brought up by her German grandmother and German/French DF. Very strong on manners. No need for physical discipline or she was sent to her room if she was naughty.

There are lots of play parks in France that I’ve seen.

You’re right about NYC kids commuting. My friend regularly commuted from outskirts (Brooklyn borders) to central Manhattan for school.

Dutch definitely believe in a more free ranging childhood - kids cycle to school, activities etc alone.

And then there is the Dutch tradition of abandoning your teens in a forest

nltimes.nl/2019/07/22/us-stunned-peculiarly-dutch-rite-dropping

I'm in Finland, and there's some differences between those raising children in the cities (particularly Helsinki) and those elsewhere, for instance worrying about schools - in Helsinki its become quite a big deal getting your child into the "right" school because the schools have become more unequal there, I think the other bigger cities probably too, but elsewhere they just go to the nearest school, sometimes not even any other option but one school, like in my town of 10k people.

Apart from, generally a bit more relaxed, from what I see children tend to stay up later in the summer at least, they don't eat dinner separately from their parents, not so overprotective, walking/biking to school alone is normal from 7, as is playing out and staying home alone. Children go swimming in the lakes with friends without adult supervision from fairly young too, 8 or 9 years old (not my children, I worry too much to allow that), roam around the forests and towns freely, and people don't make a big deal about being out after dark (would be a bit silly to, when its dark so early half the year).

Schools allow more freedom too, they do orienteering and cross-country skiing in the forest, the teacher just waits at the end point. They also seem more lax about accidents, the first I knew about my DD getting a black eye falling over skiing (managed to kick herself in the face with her ski!) was when she came home, but they have a school nurse on site so perhaps she was examined by the nurse (would still have preferred to get a message about it)

I think co-sleeping is pretty popular, at least I know a lot of parents who did it/do it. Children are pretty welcome in most places (but not in pubs, you don't get family friendly pubs here), lots of playgrounds everywhere, sports clubs aren't usually prohibitively expensive for children as hobbies are considered important.

We live in Israel. I wouldn't say kids are allowed to do "anything" as the OP suggests, but they have a lot more freedom (and responsibility) than most kids in the UK. At age 3-4 parents will leave their kids for playdates and parties; a sleepaway camp for 14 year olds is supervised by 16-year-olds, and young teenagers run a day camp for primary kids. From early primary ages kids are taught, for example, to stand up and lead a song in the synagogue. As others have mentioned for various cultures, other adults and older kids will quickly intervene if they see a problem. If a kid is playing up, for example on public transport, "grannies" or other parents will often try to engage the kid, asking questions of offering them a snack (with the consent of the parent of course) rather than silently fume at them. Kids are highly encouraged to get involved in "adult" issues - with the current political crisis, there are also demonstrations led by school kids.

Bedtime - really varies, like others have said, in the summer kids might play outside late because it's cooler.

There's much less of a culture of "kids food" here - all kids eat vegetables, and at my kid's preschool they are ONLY allowed to bring fruit, a sandwich, and cut up veg :) Also, for example on Shabbat (the Jewish sabbath) when we generally eat dinner late, kids are expected to be at the table with grownups or do their own thing, or even take themselves to bed - but there's not a separate table for kids.

Education - from age 3, there is free government preschool (7:30am till 13:00, 6 days a week) and most kids stay on till 16:45, 5 days a week. Even at this age, the class size is 29 with one teacher and one assistant. There are very few private schools here so most kids go to state schools and there is a big emphasis on community and social leadership among the youth (eg Scouts etc).

In general life here is much more family oriented. It's normal to leave work early to pick up kids or bring them to events.

Both kids and adults tend to dress more practically than in the UK.

Also (only based on what I see on Mumsnet) I feel that in general there is less materialism. There's no Christmas equivalent where kids are showered with gifts, and while kids get plenty of birthday presents they are encouraged to celebrate by bringing a gift for the preschool, or baking a cake to share, rather than the focus being only on them.

My Jewish American friend said that at Hanukkah it’s more about token gifts than huge presents. She’s now married to a Catholic man so they celebrate both Christmas and Hanukkah.

I think the MN stance is that whatever the English are doing, then it is wrong and irretrievably wrong and it is indicative of something sinister that cannot be changed. On any topic, at any time, including parenting.

It's a kind of self flagellation that is unparalleled and culturally distinct.

I'm in Ireland and I would say it's much the same as UK. Everyone became a bit hysterical in the 1990s and kids are much more supervised now and safeguarding and risk assessment is always a consideration. Perhaps parents are not quite as quick to defend their own as in UK, maybe that's more from MN than real life but generally I find parents here are tolerant and more likely to let things go, like if another child pushes yours for example, it would be rare for someone to approach the parents or complain. The 'takes a village' is definitely gone and people are usually afraid of telling off anyone else's kids.

In terms of eating habits, bed times it's much the same. We watched In the night garden and cbeebies, Peppa pig and all the usual British kids TV. Lots of adults are big into the UK soaps too and most British TV. I've rarely enough had a moment when I thought 'that wouldn't happen here'.

I think the opposite.

Whenever you see threads about cross cultural relationships etc, the vast majority of posts present the British "norm" as the correct approach while the other culture is characterised as being unreasonable. I have seen this time and time again.

That’s odd because I don’t recognise any of this and I live in the U.K. Most of my friends don’t parent like this either or watch soaps. 😂

I ignored a lot of uk parenting practices. (Uk born back generations so no cultural bias)

I let the DCs be part of adult life- up til midnight when on holiday etc. let them choose bedtimes. Encouraged independence from a young age.

I think uk parenting is weird and damages DCs!

Teens now have so many mental health problems. Imo caused by helicopter parenting.

I sort of agree but what I find astonishing is that everyone wants to box each culture up and say ‘you are all putting your kids to bed too early’ or ‘ you are all not eating meals with your children’ and that’s not what I have experienced and think people just like to generalise wildly and believe they have ‘got it right’ while the other place/culture/country is bonkers for all doing it (apparently) the correct way.

I've lived in France, kids there seemed to go to bed at a normal time. Also Hungary.

We had Ukrainian refugees living with us for a year, and their kids went to bed at the same time as their parents - a common thing in Ukraine apparently. They were a lovely family, kind and respectful, but the kids were permanently knackered!

Latinamerican here: we are more relax about routine, bed time and meal times. We sometimes do things depending in how we feel; no school or work related as those are things that need to be done but other plans.

we a friend married to a dutch, they eat at 5pm so they can put their daughter to bed at 7pm. Quite strict in terms of routine; but yes more freedom from an early age

Is this yet another variation of isn't Britain terrible compared to.the rest of the world thread ?
This week its how dreadful we all all are about raising children🙄

Austria
Children encouraged to be self sufficient. There’s little ‘child’ classes or activities, most just join adults or mixed age group day to day. If you are invited out to dinner, it’s expected children will join.
Our neighbours children have been roaming the streets alone and walk through the woods above from 3 years, even though it’s full of streams and cliff edges drops.

Kindergarten is free or cheap. It’s usually all Montessori or forest school mix. Children are given things like real hammers and nails to play with, and allowed to roam thorough woods and outside with just little supervision. My 3 year old went skiing this winter (when he was 2.5), with kindergarten. School starts at 6 years, and most walk or take local bus alone from starting.

Children ski from toddler’s. By 6-7 years most are off on all pistes confidently, often without adults close by.

School wise I think everyone just goes to local. Private is uncommon unless international school or similar in city.