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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

406 replies

coverp · 07/08/2023 23:40

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

OP posts:
ButterflyBitch · 08/08/2023 18:32

JenniferBarkley · 08/08/2023 06:49

Hi Brenda, hope the trip home was ok. The thinking these days is that children shouldn't be asked to give hugs and kisses if they don't want to. The idea is that by practising as kids with safe grown-ups, they'll be more comfortable saying no to unwanted approaches as adults. I think this is really important, so we'll be sticking with allowing them say no. It's nothing personal, they love their nanny, just sometimes they don't feel like a kiss and that's ok.

This.
my son was massively uncomfortable with physical touch when he was smaller and will still not kiss anyone including me. Haven’t had a kiss since he was a toddler. I explained to my mum when he was small that he doesn’t always want hugs and she asked him every time. Sometimes he did and sometimes he didn’t. He is a massive hugger now and voluntarily hugs her which she loves but if he didn’t she would still ask. And that’s how it should be.

AlwaysFoldingWashing · 08/08/2023 18:34

I do the same with my 2 year old. It's more important to me that he learns about bodily autonomy than pleasing other people

LolaSmiles · 08/08/2023 18:43

I want them both to know that no means no and stop means stop.

At the moment, that might mean stop tickling or stop pushing the swing. One day it might mean stop penetration. And it has to be adhered to.

This starts early and they HAVE to know that no matter who or what is involved, they call the shots with their bodies.

Agree with this ^^

When you think about it in the cold light of day it's actually really weird when an adult would look at a child, KNOW the child doesn't want a certain kind of physical contact, and STILL push and push to get the contact the adult wants.

What's the worst that will happen by an adult saying "sure we can High 5 to say hello today", "you'd like to wave goodbye. Sure! Let's give some big waves! See you soon."?

monsteramunch · 08/08/2023 18:45

When you think about it in the cold light of day it's actually really weird when an adult would look at a child, KNOW the child doesn't want a certain kind of physical contact, and STILL push and push to get the contact the adult wants.

This.

It's absolutely bizarre to still want someone, anyone to hug or kiss you when you know they don't want to do so.

Who on earth would enjoy that hug or kiss?!

LolaSmiles · 08/08/2023 18:53

It's absolutely bizarre to still want someone, anyone to hug or kiss you when you know theydon't want to do so.

Who on earth would enjoy that hug or kiss?!
Exactly!

I don't love everything she writes but I think Sarah Ockwell-Smith is right on the idea of child-ism.

Take this topic and write them as AIBU/relationships posts for Mumsnet.

^DH doesn't respect my personal space. I'm not against physical contact but I don't want him to be pawing at me when I'm in the middle of cleaning or I'm planting my seedlings out. He interrupts what I'm doing to prod me or put his arms around me. He knows I don't like it, but he says he's just showing love. Is it unreasonable of me to say he needs to give me some space and I'll let him know when I'm open to contact?"

"DP wants to do something in the bedroom. I don't want to do it but am happy with other things. He gets moody, sulks and tells me that I'm upsetting him, rejecting him and being a brat. What should I do moving forward?"

My teenager has a gf/bf. They've said they feel pressured to send nude photos/have sex. Their gf/bf seems to think that just because they've been intimate once, that every time they're alone and have the chance will lead to sex, or closer to sex. Their gf/bf says if teen loved them then they would do it. Teen says that's just how things are but I'm trying to explain to them that consent needs to be enthusiastic and not give reluctantly after manipulation. What would you say to your teen?"

ODFOx · 08/08/2023 19:04

She is overstepping but it is a generational thing. There's a subtext in your OP which suggests a difficult relationship. If you can set aside the nderlting tension you can diffuse this problem, at least:
'. Hi X, please don't feel hurt. The issue with adult physical contact isn't a reflection on you at all. It's, sadly, a reflection of the times we live on that we have to teach our children the right to say no from such an early age to protect them. We are trying to teach them to tread that fine line between being polite but also being firm with their own boundaries and having the right to avoid physical contact. Something mes they will want a hug and kiss, sometimes they won't, but we need to teach them that they can always say no to physical contact. Thanks for your understanding. it will be great to have you onboard as we take this forward: sometimes hugs for all of us; sometimes not; but always their choice. Lunch on Sunday ? Etc etc

SoThisIsSummer · 08/08/2023 19:36

Op I let my dc be chased around by great granny for a kiss and I really regret it.

She didn't want to see her after that and trying to convince a toddler was hard... I wish I had stood up for her.

RattleRattle · 08/08/2023 20:18

This reply has been deleted

This user is a goady troll so we've removed their posts.

Azaeleasinbloom · 08/08/2023 20:36

ODfox gives some good advice, but it’s NOT generational. At 61 , I think I am probably in the relevant age group, and trust me, I neither demand hugs/ kisses from small people, nor was I forced or encouraged to hand them out as a child.
Your MIL sounds unhinged OP, and you are right to allow your children to maintain their autonomy.

Freneg98 · 08/08/2023 21:22

100% with you on this. Bodily autonomy and boundaries are best taught from very early childhood.
On a side note, grandparents gilt tripping children, especially in front of their parents, is so annoying! My mum does it occasionally, I have to be firm and then I am the "bad guy".
Both issues are a generational issue, but that does not make them right.
Well done you - you're a great advocate for your children.

Cowlover89 · 08/08/2023 21:36

YANBU

Iamtheonwandlonely · 08/08/2023 21:55

I'm 50 with 2 GC and I don't force them to kiss and hug me.
They'll give me a high five which I love.

I was the same with my own kids never pressured them to give physical affection if they didn't want to.

DisquietintheRanks · 08/08/2023 22:07

In my culture we embrace and kiss our friends and relatives when we meet and we leave them. I'm not aware that child abuse is more common than it is in the UK.

TinkerbellefromYorkshire · 08/08/2023 22:16

Yes you are right. No child should be forced to kiss/ hug/ cuddle anyone.. they should do it on their terms.. asked if they want to or would like to.. if they say NO it should be respected.. gosh l do this with my Grandkids.. never force.. always ask and take their lead.
Your MIL needs educating on this.

CoteDOpale · 08/08/2023 22:53

DisquietintheRanks · 08/08/2023 22:07

In my culture we embrace and kiss our friends and relatives when we meet and we leave them. I'm not aware that child abuse is more common than it is in the UK.

And it’s also common in the UK, which is fine, but that’s not the issue being discussed here.

This is about respecting a child who doesn’t want to, rather than forcing them. Granny doesn’t get to emotionally manipulate a child who has said no.

InSpainTheRain · 08/08/2023 23:35

YANBU I hate all the kissing stuff. MIL who is lovely always wants.to kiss me - urgh!

CrazyArmadilloLady · 09/08/2023 03:45

DisquietintheRanks · 08/08/2023 22:07

In my culture we embrace and kiss our friends and relatives when we meet and we leave them. I'm not aware that child abuse is more common than it is in the UK.

….and there will be plenty of children in ‘your culture’ that don’t want to kiss everyone they come into contact with hello and goodbye.

autienotnaughti · 09/08/2023 07:31

DisquietintheRanks · 08/08/2023 22:07

In my culture we embrace and kiss our friends and relatives when we meet and we leave them. I'm not aware that child abuse is more common than it is in the UK.

It's not really the kissing that's the issue. It's the teaching children that they have to kiss/hug their elders and are not allowed to say no. If a young child was expected to kiss you and didn't want to would you force/manipulate them to? If an adult didn't want to would you force them to?

MumofBoyzTW · 09/08/2023 07:43

My sons are grown 19 & 17, but all through their lives they have had a good relationship with their grandma, but not so much their granny.

One of my sons would rather not hug, the other won’t!

Grandma chats to them about what they want to talk about, doesn’t make them hug her or anything else. They drive down and do jobs for her, cut the grass and fix things and are happy to do so.

Granny has always tried to dictate to them, they make a point of avoiding her. They say hello when she visits then disappear. They don’t even want to do jobs for her if she pays them.

I think ignore the text and carry on as you are.
Your ML will be the loser, kids might not remember events, but they remember general feelings.

CherryMojito · 09/08/2023 08:37

DisquietintheRanks · 08/08/2023 22:07

In my culture we embrace and kiss our friends and relatives when we meet and we leave them. I'm not aware that child abuse is more common than it is in the UK.

You have completely missed the point.

No one is saying that hugging and kissing leads to child abuse.

We are saying that children should be allowed to choose who touches them and should be taught that it's absolutely fine to say no. Learning this from a young age makes it easier for them to say no if the worst were to potentially happen.

And I was made to kiss relatives. I hated it. And now as an adult very few people are allowed to touch me as it makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Gladragsy · 09/08/2023 08:44

watcherintherye · 07/08/2023 23:48

It is very important for children - especially girls - to be taught that their boundaries and consent (or lack thereof) are important and will be respected.

Why especially girls? Children of either sex are equally vulnerable.

For when they are adults, is about girls safety. She used the words especially not exclusively

Rocknrollstar · 09/08/2023 09:07

DS hated kisses and cuddles and we taught him to shake hands and smile. People were so knocked out by this that they forgot they hadn’t had a kiss.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 09/08/2023 09:52

Rudderneck · 08/08/2023 02:37

With children as young as two, they don't really have the self-control to hide their feelings about being affectionate, so I don't think it's useful to insist. If anything it will create more resistance.

So from that POV I think your MIL is being rather unwise. Little kids can just be shy.

That being said, many people avoid telling even older kids that it is polite to, say, kiss or hug nanny because it will make her feel happy and loved, because of an idea that it will make them vulnerable to abuse. There is not actually any evidence of that being the case, but it's a popular idea.

I don't think it's actually any more harmful than teaching kids to give a high five or shake hands - in many cultures kissing is the normal thing even when being introduced to someone totally new, just like a handshake. In our culture it's reserved for somewhat closer relationships, but young people are perfectly capable of learning which kinds of customary affections are appropriate in which situations.

I know it's frowned upon to use anectada as evidence but here it is anyway.

I never liked my Dad's dad, for various reasons including the fact that I had weird vibes about him. His kisses were always too slobbery, and too close to my lips. Sitting in his lap was weird and uncomfortable, the hugs were too close, his hands too all over me.But you know , I had to, because that's what you did with family and I couldn't quite put my finger on it why it felt so wrong with him and why it made me uncomfortable. There was also some tension between mum and dad because I was much friendlier and cuddlier and familiar with my maternal grandparents. So I had to you know, share the love and respect. If it ended there, that would still be gross , but it didn't.

Ironically the advice I got after I told was to avoid kisses, stop sitting in his lap(I hadn't done that for ages anyway as I was quite older) etc. All the stuff I never wanted to do anyways!! I put my foot down instead of policing my own (child) behaviour and refused to see him ever again. I only told because it was obviously wrong and not a thing a grandfather would do. I was still doubted and blamed in my eyes.

The thing is I never knew if the drip drip drip of the little things were ok or not or how to say I don't want to. Now you might think everything else was innocent and normal, and that incident one moment of madness(as others did), but I don't believe that. Because it felt fucking wrong every single time for years.

Mummingit85 · 09/08/2023 10:14

My boy is only 11 months but I can see my mum doing the same. She regularly asks when will he give kisses and said the last time we were there “I bet he’s mean with his kisses”. To which I said “if he doesn’t want to give kisses, he doesn’t have to”. I’m sure there will be more push back on this but I will be standing my ground. I remember when I was about 8 an adult son of my mums friend took my barbie and refused to give it back till I gave him a kiss. I told my mum, expecting her to tell him to give it back, but she didn’t intervene. I assume I got the barbie back eventually but he never got his kiss. All these years later it still upsets me. My boy will never be in a similar situation with anyone

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 09/08/2023 10:21

Mummingit85 · 09/08/2023 10:14

My boy is only 11 months but I can see my mum doing the same. She regularly asks when will he give kisses and said the last time we were there “I bet he’s mean with his kisses”. To which I said “if he doesn’t want to give kisses, he doesn’t have to”. I’m sure there will be more push back on this but I will be standing my ground. I remember when I was about 8 an adult son of my mums friend took my barbie and refused to give it back till I gave him a kiss. I told my mum, expecting her to tell him to give it back, but she didn’t intervene. I assume I got the barbie back eventually but he never got his kiss. All these years later it still upsets me. My boy will never be in a similar situation with anyone

That's also familiar. But in exchange for gifts. He was quite wealthy so he'd show up with great gifts , I still remember this huge ,extravagant,beautiful Barbie set (only one i had) but gratitude had to be expressed with more kisses and hugs. I think it was the only time I did enthusiastically, purely transactional of course.