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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

406 replies

coverp · 07/08/2023 23:40

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

OP posts:
NorthernSarcasticandDownrightFantastic · 09/08/2023 10:26

YANBU.
Bodily autonomy is important to learn early on.
Tell her "I'm sorry you feel your desires are that important they overrule a child's need to have control of their own body, and who kisses and touches them. I'm sorry you chose to attempt to emotionally blackmail them into physical contact.
For obvious reasons, until you learn that children are not there for your amusement and to meet your emotional needs, you will not be permitted to spend time with them, as you clearly do not respect either them or I"

End of conversation.

Goalhappy · 09/08/2023 12:09

I’d be absolutely livid too!! That she believes her wanting a ‘kiss’ is more important than your child wanting not to! She believes a child shouldn’t consent to who cuddles and kisses them?!
I’d not be speaking to her again tbh- I’m one who can’t let things go! 😂

Parentalalienation · 09/08/2023 12:53

I was a child who hated the whole being hugged and kissed by adults when growing up too, and back then if you didn't want to, it was tough.
You're completely right to stand up for your children's right to choose who touches them.
I would ignore her messages because she is never going to see this through your lens, especially if she's someone born in the 70s or earlier (like me) and grew up with that same sort of expectation and lack of autonomy.

Mischance · 09/08/2023 15:52

The emotional blackmail is what is fundamentally wrong here, never mind what it is about. In this instance it is about giving a kiss, but it could be about anything at all. "why don't you want to kiss nanny/pee in the potty/clear up your toys/get in the bath etc. etc., you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't do the above."

This sort of blackmail and manipulation of little children gives me the absolute creeps.

pigsDOfly · 09/08/2023 16:05

She is overstepping but it is a generational thing.

Is it? Why?

I'm 74 so I think I probably come into the generation you're referring to, or perhaps I'm even older.

I posted upthread about the falling out I had with my then, BIL when he tried to insist that my then, 3 year old DD kiss her grandmother goodbye.

My DD is now in her late 30s.

I've always insisted on my children having autonomy over what happens to their bodies in these kinds of scenarios.

It's not a generational thing, Insisting on children kissing and hugging people is a thing done by people who think their demands outweigh the comfort of children.

I'm sure there are grandparents who aren't a great deal older than my DD who insist on being kissed goodbye by their grandchildren.

Greensleeves · 09/08/2023 16:12

watcherintherye · 07/08/2023 23:48

It is very important for children - especially girls - to be taught that their boundaries and consent (or lack thereof) are important and will be respected.

Why especially girls? Children of either sex are equally vulnerable.

Female children will be vulnerable throughout their lives. The overwhelming majority of sexual predators - and habitual tramplers of girls' and women's boundaries - are men. Of course female children have a particular need to be taught and empowered to refuse unwanted contact. Nobody is saying boys don't need to learn this too - of course they do - but it's facile to suggest that females aren't at a consistently greater risk of having their bodily autonomy threatened or breached.

Greensleeves · 09/08/2023 16:14

Apologies for derailing your thread there OP Flowers I agree with pp that your MIL is completely out of order. If she wants physical affection from your children, she should focus on building a relationship in which they want to offer it freely. Not demand it or take it by force/blackmail.

Sabrinasummersamples · 09/08/2023 16:29

Well if ask a child for a kiss or a cuddle (obviously only a child I knew well or was a relation) when leaving. I don't think that's weird at all. I wouldn't insist though ever. But what the hell is wrong with asking?

Parentalalienation · 09/08/2023 17:09

@pigsDOfly I'm glad to see your post as it confirms for me that things could - and should - have been different growing up. I and my peers had to accept anyone touching us, including leery men 'accidentally' touching our chest area. If we moved away or said anything, our feet didn't touch the floor and we were punished for cheek and not respecting our elders. I can understand how abuse happened in plain sight and was ignored now I think back.

curlywurlylover666 · 09/08/2023 17:10

Yanbu but I do the same with my girls. I don't expect them to hug or kiss anyone they don't want to. They get thr option of a high five or fist pump or wave if they don't want to hug.

To be honest my mum always tries to insist on a hug and kiss from mine, always gets knocked back as I think it comes across she's trying to force the situation. MiL on the other hand always gets a hug, it's never forced and they are clearly happy doing it.

Let them decide who they hug or kiss, I remember running away from relatives I was forced to kiss, I hated it.

As for the emotional guilt trip from MIL, that's not on.

I'd broach this from an educational view that your trying to teach boundaries and the kids using their voices about what they are comfortable with.

Good luck, educating the grandparents is a challenge.

Parentalalienation · 09/08/2023 17:15

Sabrinasummersamples · 09/08/2023 16:29

Well if ask a child for a kiss or a cuddle (obviously only a child I knew well or was a relation) when leaving. I don't think that's weird at all. I wouldn't insist though ever. But what the hell is wrong with asking?

There's nothing wrong with asking. If it's a child, asking 'wave, hug or high five?' gives them autonomy to choose. They might suggest something else that they've learned at school as a greeting in response! As long as it's said with a smile and no expectation of physical contact, I think it's fine.

NorthernSarcasticandDownrightFantastic · 09/08/2023 17:33

DisquietintheRanks · 08/08/2023 22:07

In my culture we embrace and kiss our friends and relatives when we meet and we leave them. I'm not aware that child abuse is more common than it is in the UK.

That's kind of the point... you wouldn't be.

Why would you as an adult want to force a child into physical contact... just weird imo

Bludyhelltobenutz · 09/08/2023 17:53

The MIL sounds like a manipulative old bitch. It’s fine for the kids to give her a kiss and a cuddle but on their terms and with your guidance - not because she’s made them feel guilty.

CoffeeMama1 · 09/08/2023 17:54

I'd respond "I am not and will never force my children to do anything they don't want to, they have the right to choose how they say goodbye to someone " and then next time if she does it when you're leaving I'd say to the kids Infront of her "remember you're not responsible for nanny's feelings, if she's sad because you don't want to kiss her that's her feeling to work through and she's an adult who's responsible for herself, it's not your responsibility to make her happy " and just embarrass her.

mandlerparr · 09/08/2023 17:57

text her back and tell her you are teaching them to say no to adults that ask for affection so that a pedo doesn't snatch. Then ask if she wants a pedo to snatch them.
Okay, that may be too evil, I am petty.
but, not learning to say no to unwanted affection is a big problem. Just try and explain that to her. also explain to her that refusing a hug and/or kiss is not rude, insisting on such, is.

FuckertyFuckFuckfuckery · 09/08/2023 17:59

i think you are 100% right @coverp

NatashaDancing · 09/08/2023 18:01

Sabrinasummersamples · 09/08/2023 16:29

Well if ask a child for a kiss or a cuddle (obviously only a child I knew well or was a relation) when leaving. I don't think that's weird at all. I wouldn't insist though ever. But what the hell is wrong with asking?

Tbh, I think it's really weird. I'm not a grandmother but I am an aunt. It never occurred to me to ask my nephew, or other children I was close to, to give me a kiss.

Seriously, why?

Annie118 · 09/08/2023 18:05

Hi

I am a granny & specifically told my daughter not to insist that her children give ne a kiss. Children should not be forced to kiss adults. They shouldn't grow up thinking they have to be affectionate with all who ask

NatashaDancing · 09/08/2023 18:09

Parentalalienation · 09/08/2023 12:53

I was a child who hated the whole being hugged and kissed by adults when growing up too, and back then if you didn't want to, it was tough.
You're completely right to stand up for your children's right to choose who touches them.
I would ignore her messages because she is never going to see this through your lens, especially if she's someone born in the 70s or earlier (like me) and grew up with that same sort of expectation and lack of autonomy.

I was born in the late 1950s. I don't remember being told to kiss relatives. I certainly didn't expect my son to put up with this. Tbh, I think adults asking for kisses and hugs are at best needy and at worst creepy.

Misspepperpotts · 09/08/2023 18:14

You are doing the right thing but she will never understand unless she is educated as to why it is important that adults or other individuals do not insist that children provide affection or physical contact on demand to suit that individuals own needs. She is obviously of the generation where children did not have agency and did what they were told regardless of how it made them feel. Times have thankfully changed and the MIL needs to understand the reason why her attitude in insisting on physical contact is damaging to her grand children. No child should be required to show physical affection on the demand of another person that person may be and it is an important lesson for children to learn. Their bodies their choice! If children do not want to kiss or hug another human being then that is their right and it should be respected! Well done for supporting your children and teaching them that when it comes to their bodies and personal space they are in control.

Ireallycantthinkofagoodone · 09/08/2023 18:15

CornishTiger · 07/08/2023 23:51

Dear MIL I’m sorry to hear you think teaching children body autonomy and consent is ridiculous. The only bratty thing about this afternoon was your guilt tripping and refusal to accept No as the first and final answer. Please do not do that again or we will not be able to visit.

That’s fabulous!

ActDottie · 09/08/2023 18:16

Yanbu!!!

Mumof3confused · 09/08/2023 18:17

I used to have to do this. I had an Aunty who was married to a man who was bald and she would ask me to go and kiss his head?!! I used to feel awful for not wanting to, as I also wanted to be a ‘good girl’. I have NEVER forced my children to do something they do not want to do. It can be so damaging.

Wifey16 · 09/08/2023 18:21

I say to my boys, kiss, cuddles or high fives, gives them the choice and people they see on the regular know this and respect what they want to do, they are 3 and 6

Babyandfurbabymum · 09/08/2023 18:27

No, you are NOT being unreasonable. Children aren't plush toys that adults can manipulate into kissing and cuddling to meet THEIR needs. It is also possible they feel a bit shy when she first arrives and need time to get used to her again. Forcing them to kiss is wrong and counterproductive as they will be doing it out of duty and will just feel more uncomfortable as it won't feel genuine. Totally agree with you. I can still remember being forced to kiss my Grandma and it felt wrong as she didn't make me feel comfortable.